Hello,

Lately I've been diagnosed with vitamin B12 deficiency.
I had flu 1 month ago, and since then I'm not feeling too well, mainly feeling fatigued, weakness, and lower leg pain.
My blood test has shown a level of 284.
I started to take methyl b12 1000mcg sublinguals, and since then my body is reacting with different symptoms, I felt a bit tingling in lower leg muscles which is now gone, warm throat which is gone.
I'm supplementing for about 3 weeks.
I had times of mild nausea which is gone also, sometimes mild diarrhea.
I also had hunger attacks, which have gone also.
The main issues which are still bothering me are tiredness and sometimes bloating and gas which I think reduces my appetite.

Is all I'm going through normal?
I think I'm doing better generally, since I've started to supplement, but the B12 really kick started many symptoms by me.

Please advise,
Alon

Welcome to NeuroTalk....

There should not be many issues with the B12. Do you know what the concentration of your test was? pg/ml, or nmol/L ? You may need to convert your result. 400pg/ml is the lowest norm now in the US.

Did you take antibiotics for your flu, or just before? Digestive issues are common with antibiotics. Try eating some organic Kefir daily and see if you feel better in that respect.

You should take the B12 on an empty stomach...as it is swallowed with your saliva and will be absorbed passively in the intestine if no food is present.

Your dose is not high and only about 13 micrograms will be absorbed for each dose.

People who continue with odd symptoms when using methylB12 should get tested for mercury and other heavy metals. Too much mercury may react with methylB12 but there is no absolute proof of this.

As your body heals from deficiency there may be odd feelings but they should not be extreme.

This is our B12 thread here:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread85103.html
Lots of medical links and discussions there.

[QUOTE=mrsD;1075786]Welcome to NeuroTalk....

There should not be many issues with the B12. Do you know what the concentration of your test was? pg/ml, or nmol/L ? You may need to convert your result. 400pg/ml is the lowest norm now in the US.

Did you take antibiotics for your flu, or just before? Digestive issues are common with antibiotics. Try eating some organic Kefir daily and see if you feel better in that respect.

You should take the B12 on an empty stomach...as it is swallowed with your saliva and will be absorbed passively in the intestine if no food is present.

Your dose is not high and only about 13 micrograms will be absorbed for each dose.

People who continue with odd symptoms when using methylB12 should get tested for mercury and other heavy metals. Too much mercury may react with methylB12 but there is no absolute proof of this.

As your body heals from deficiency there may be odd feelings but they should not be extreme.



Hello, thanks you for the reply.
It's 284 pg/ml.
I didn't take antibiotics, the digestive issues started to occur a week after supplementing with b12, the first week I supplemented with cyancobolamin, and then I switched to methylcobolamin.
First 2 weeks I was mostly very hungry, and on the third week less appetite due to gas I think, cause I burp and take out air often.

I take Jarrow methyl b12 - it's a sublingual, I put it under the tongue for 45min for maximum absorption. according to a knowledgeable guy from another forum that's about 120mcg in 45 min.

The feelings aren't extreme, they're mostly bothering, the digestive issues makes me apprehensive and then I think it worsen my mood.
So probably psychological fear from symptoms as well aggravates the situation.

I have never found data to show blood levels after absorption under the tongue.
If you have a link to the real data and not just an opinion I'd
like to see it.

Thanks you mrsD for the reply. I've just received your private message but couldn't reply back.

I want to make sure I understand you correctly, because I really want to get over this B12 deficiency which is really bothering.
I should swallow the B12 sublinguals on empty stomach before food, how long after it can I eat?

Should I take a b-complex as well?

Many thanks,
Alon

I sent you another private message. The newbie status, does not allow them, but you may be close now to being activated.

It is best to take the B12 in the morning, when you have fasted all night (no snacks)..Then wait about an hour for the B12 to get to the intestine. Take with a little water to help the stomach empty quickly. The stomach will normally empty in 20 minutes with fluids only.(this is delayed further if you have gastroparesis nerve damage in the stomach). It is the fiber and volume of the food that soaks up the B12 like a sponge. 1000mcg or 1mg is a tiny amount and that gets lost in the food that is present.

I chew up my B12 tablet and follow with water. Almost all oral forms here are soft and flavored because they can be used under the tongue if desired.
Many people get GI reflux or upset with Bcomplex though... so you can take that with a light meal.

There is a really good B-complex called B-Right by Jarrow which has the methylated folate and B12. I'd recommend this, and because it is not so high dose, you could try that on an empty stomach because of the B12 content. But you don't have to because you take your B12 separately.
http://www.amazon.com/Jarrow-Formula.../dp/B0016003Z0
We have had many people over the years here use this with great success.

As an aside, this factor was only recently discovered when many thyroid patients were having failures with their medications.
So a doctor did a study and found that taking the thyroid hormone with breakfast was the reason. Most breakfasts have fiber in them, and this was sequestering the hormone and it never got absorbed. So now drugs are given this warning and that is fine, but no one is paying attention to micrograms of B12 which are OTC.... that is why I am so strident about this.

Most vitamins can be taken with food. It is only the B12 that has this problem. We evolved to have acid in our stomach to break up protein, and to have intrinsic factor to scoop up the B12 liberated from that protein (meat etc) and be carried to the intestine where the transcobalamin is to transport it.

If you don't have stomach acid or intrinsic factor, then you are in trouble.
In the past, before this was all understood, pernicious anemia and achlorhydria resulted in many slow lingering deaths. Today use of acid blocking drugs today or metformin, cause low acid conditions and therefore low B12 levels.

Thanks you for a thorough reply and willingness to help.

With regard to methyl form might causing side effects (discussed in PM), in the first week I supplemented with cyanocobolamin, and during that week nausea/lack of appetite has started.
From that moment I switched to the methyl form, and the digestive issues are still present.

I can really say that in general the tendency of my recovery is towards betterment. My mood is better, my energy is better, I had some nerve issues in my left leg over the past 1 year which I ignored and since supplementing it has improved tremendously.

The only issue that bothers me is my digestion, seems like it is regulating itself since supplementing with b12, and it shall pass soon.

I think that the main cause for my b12 deficiency is long period of stress (universify studying, and predisposition for extreme perfectionism).
I will add Jarrow b-complex to augment my recovery.
One more question please, would you combine adenosylcobolamin form as well with the methylcoblamin, for supplementation?

Yes, you can take them together. We are lucky that B12 has such a low non-existant toxicity profile.

The DNA mutations are just barely now understood. And the body converts cobalamin in food back and forth to the more active forms as needed. This is all done with enzymes.

I have some links to the Kegg pathway... and I'll warn you that it is complex and difficult to understand. But the diagrams illustrate how various nutrients in the body are converted around.
The boxes with numbers are enzymes. These are made from messenger RNA from our DNA...and if the DNA has an error present then the enzymes fail. This is really complicated and hasn't made it down to the lay public or doctors much. That is why I gave you MTHFR.net... that is one of the better sites for understanding this if you want to...that is.

This is human digestion:
http://www.genome.jp/kegg-bin/show_pathway?hsa04977

http://www.genome.jp/dbget-bin/www_bget?md:M00122

If you look around on Kegg you'll find other biological metabolic systems that have been so far elucidated. I find it all rather humbling! LOL But it illustrates enough to make us all respect how chemically and genetically complex we are!

From what I have learned, the adenosyl form is favored by body builders, for muscle energy etc.

But I think for the most part, we should keep it as simple as possible, and only move on when things don't go as well as expected. I stick to the medical evidence, because that is how I was trained, and how I worked in my own profession.

Anecdotal stories are interesting, but often are highly personal and reflect potential but not solutions for everyone.

This is good that you are seeing improvements quickly. You may have to take B12 for life, because something caused your low levels initially. The digestive thing is puzzling, because low B12 often causes diarrhea and other problems. If you have low acid, the B6 in the complex may improve that. Low acid causes gas and bloating and diarrhea in some people. A supplement called Betaine HCl is often used to raise stomach acid for people with low acid levels. It may be helpful for you to look that up if your issues continue. The digestive results of low acid involve fermentation in the GI tract of undigested food, by bacteria.
You might find Kefir very helpful, to restore balance of good bacteria in the bowel.

Thanks you very much for all the useful information.
I will update my progress.

I will check up Kefir, actually I've started to gather information about sauerkraut fermentation. It is possible to get a clay pot and ferment cabbage the old way. a great way to restore gut flora.

Welcome alonaxis.