[Auntie Audrey]

I hardly ever eat any red meat, which contains carnitine, so I had been taking a daily L-carnitine supplement for energy and heart health.

A couple of years ago there was a research study stating that carnitine is actually bad for your heart, getting converted in your body to a compound which is associated with hardening of the arteries and heart disease. This was enough for Dr. Oz, who had been recommending carnitine, to change his mind:

http://blog.doctoroz.com/dr-oz-blog/...ng-l-carnitine

Here is an excerpt:

“Here’s how it works: After you ingest L-carnitine, it travels to your gut, and intestinal bacteria converts the L-carnitine into a substance called TMA, which then gets processed by the liver. The liver converts TMA into a compound that has been linked to plaque build-up in the arteries and heart disease. This conversion was most apparent in those who regularly ate red meat.”

Dr. Oz is now saying not to take carnitine at all, either in red meat or supplement form. Of course this provoked an opposite reaction from those who still defend taking carnitine. Here is a link to one example:

http://www.steadyhealth.com/articles...t-help-or-hurt

So what is one to do about the conflicting opinions? Since I was getting an energy boost from taking a carnitine supplement, I didn’t really want to eliminate it from my regimen unless the evidence was convincing. So I sort of hedged my bet by first reducing my daily dosage from 1500 mg to 500 mg, then down to 250 mg, but I don’t really feel much of an effect from this smaller dosage any more. I’m now thinking about eliminating it entirely.

If Dr. Oz is correct, and I’m not saying he is, then the carnitine issue would be another reason why eating red meat could be bad for your heart.

[mrsD]

This explains the details of the carnitine scare:

http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowl...t=blog-section

http://www.drwhitaker.com/the-truth-...e-side-effects

this situation is similar to the big scare about Vit E a few years ago. That was a poorly reported and inaccurate situation too.

Do yourself a favor, please. Don't watch Dr. Oz... he rarely is accurate. Most of the time he doesn't even understand his topic.

[Jomar]

I would look for info on other medical/ nutritional sites than Dr Oz's... he seems to be geared more to entertainment /medical /sensationalism...

some various sites & results -
https://www.google.com/search?q=Carn...art&gws_rd=ssl

[caroline2]

We can drive ourselves NUTS with all the info out there, everyone has an opinion. I eat meat and some red meat, I love lamb. and my lamburgers. I followed the Blood Type book for some time and keep that info in my mind. I don't eat tons of meat but what I do, I buy organic or grass fed at least.

My one friend has tried to get off red meat, but she knows she feels more energy after eating a clean beefburger grilled in olive oil, I use coconut oil in everything I cook...

Years ago when carnitine became known to us, I took it for a while and didn't notice much, a good piece of beef helps me better or lamb. I'm type B blood. I don't believe in overdosing on anything, but moderation is all.

I have a book The Heart Revolution by Dr. McCully and he writes it's about homocysteine being the heart culprit not cholesterol which many write about being a myth put on us. I've had higher homo levels after my integrative MD started lipid panels a few years ago and I'm bringing the homo down with omega 3's and homocysteine formula I work with.

My folks lived into 90's and ate everything, meat, oils, breads.....I quit breads some yrs ago. That's my best comment I can give. Back in my parent's days and they did not smoke...there was none of this info out there...it was just starting and my mom loved her Prevention magazine. They didn't eat a lot of junk foods, but sugar was big in their lives and I fell into that trap for a long time. But they had long lives regardless of what they ate. Luck plays a role in everything. I guess. C

What I'm working with MORE these days and living with chronic bodywide pain and aging, is keeping on top of potassium, supplementing with Pantothenic Acid B5 and DRibose. I eat well but body has changed so much in the last 10yrs at least.

[Vowel Lady]

I do wonder about my ancestors. I have Greek relatives that lived into their late 90s and enjoyed good health up until the very end. They were born in Greece, but moved to the US probably in their 20s.

They ate a LOT of vegetables and enjoyed fruit as snacks. They ate red meat, fish and lamb regularly...but the portions were modest. Never huge. They also ate feta cheese, nuts, yogurt and honey. Occasional pasta, but not too often at all. Same with bread...a treat, not a regular thing. They did NOt eat junk food at all. They drank wine here and there, some ouzo when company came and lots of water.

Another generation from the same lineage...died at age 79. We always thought he would live a very long life. He also ate fairly well and some similarities to the others. AND, he was very athletic too...even in his 70s. BUT, although he ate similarly to his older relatives,there were some VERY noticeable exceptions: 1. he regularly drank Soda. I mean all the time. 2. He liked sweets, particularly chocolate and hard candies and ate them often. 3. He ate bread much more regularly than his older relatives. And finally 4: he ate very large portions of steak relatively often.

May not have meant anything...but I DO think about it and wonder...especially about drinking soda so often. Although athletic and he took vitamins (not like his relatives), those things plus good genes, I thought would ensure a long life too. But, I wonder about those few bad eating habits. One never knows... Surely may just have been his time.

[caroline2]

My parents never kept soda in the house, but I couldn't wait to get to the drug store for my coke fix and years later it was pepsi, have a mouthful of dental work to prove it...lots of sugar and then the fluoride in all those drinks....ugh. I cringe when I see people checking out with cases of coke etc. their choices. their path.

[Auntie Audrey]

I agree that Dr. Oz’s show is mostly entertainment, and I’ve actually only watched it once or twice. The link I provided was his explanation of how carnitine may damage the heart, but it was my understanding that what he said was based primarily on the explanation from the original research study.

The problem with these conflicting articles is that often the writers have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Notice, for example, that the articles from Hammer Nutrition and Dr. Whitaker supporting the use of carnitine are made by people who are also supplying their own formulations of carnitine to the public.

[mrsD]

Linus Pauling Institute: re: carnitine

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/files/pdf...tters/ss13.pdf

The Linus Pauling Institute also had a very good evaluation of the controversial Vit E media rant a few years ago.

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/vitamin-E

Vitamin E supplementation and all-cause mortality

A meta-analysis that combined the results of 19 clinical trials of vitamin E supplementation for various diseases, including heart disease, end-stage renal failure, and Alzheimer's disease, reported that adults who took supplements of 400 IU/day or more were 6% more likely to die from any cause than those who did not take vitamin E supplements (73). However, further breakdown of the risk by vitamin E dose and adjustment for other vitamin and mineral supplements revealed that the increased risk of death was statistically significant only at a dose of 2,000 IU/day, which is higher than the UL for adults. Additionally, three other meta-analyses that combined the results of randomized controlled trials designed to evaluate the efficacy of vitamin E supplementation for the prevention or treatment of cardiovascular disease found no evidence that vitamin E supplementation up to 800 IU/day significantly increased or decreased cardiovascular disease mortality or all-cause mortality (74-76). Additionally, a more recent meta-analysis of 57 randomized controlled trials found that vitamin E supplementation, up to doses of 5,500 IU/day, had no effect on all-cause mortality (77). Furthermore, a meta-analysis of 68 randomized trials found that supplemental vitamin E, singly or in combination with other antioxidant supplements, did not significantly alter risk of all-cause mortality (78). At present, there is no convincing evidence that vitamin E supplementation up to 800 IU/day increases the risk of death from cardiovascular disease or other causes.

The Linus Pauling Institute is part of Oregon State University and has had a very complete and evidence based attitude on using supplements. It remains IMO one of the best sources to consult concerning questions, and safe use of vitamins, minerals and other supplements. They have just redesigned their site to be more user friendly, and if you search an item you will find articles in addition to the basic monographs.

Readers here are always free to decide for themselves, but it really helps to have good sites to provide the data for those decisions.

[caroline2]

I don't think Dr. Oz means any harm but I don't watch him and I remember when his big vitamin/supp book came out years ago...it was a rage for a while. I never picked it up or bought it and I don't watch him...but he has some good info and I don't throw him away. I don't know who doesn't have vested interests in anything so we need to decide what we want to believe in and buy for our needs. Too bad I don't have a vested interest in grape seed extract as I tell everyone I can about it's benefits....

My vested interest is to HELP others if they care to hear my story. Anyway......

From day 1 I've been told and read grape seed ex is 50 times stronger than Vit E and 20 times stronger than Vit C. I have not taken Vit E for some time now, but still take about 2000mg of Vit C complex and my powerful grape seed ex.

We have a doctor in my town, who treated many patients out of the box and one was Vit E for arthritis.

got off track, hope no harm.

[Auntie Audrey]

Thanks for the information about the Linus Pauling Institute, mrsD.

I confess I’ve avoided this site because of its association with the late Linus Pauling, but since you say it’s good I will definitely check it out.