Me again. I just got off the phone with their office. (Dr. was not in) I spoke with a nurse there. They did the mma and the hcy yesterday?? My appointment in two weeks is just to discusse the results of the blood work and do a clotting factor!!! I said if its ok then (trying to be polite) Iam going start taking a sublingal form of b12. She said fine but if Iam that low they will not do anything for me. Iam not a cry baby , I know I sound like one but I swear I have a very high thresh hold for pain, but being this tired has me crying alot. THis is sooooooooo not like me I feel like a different person. I will take the b12 now and hopfully be on my way back to the old me.

Thank you all (especially you Rose) for your knowledge and support, Really, what would have happend had I not found this site?

You are not a crybaby. This is serious ^$#@ and none of us should be put through this. Thank goodness someone knew enough to even suspect B12 deficiency and test for it, much less the MMA and Hcy (which most don't even know about).

I sure would begin taking one or two of those per day. Maybe they will learn something as a result of dealing with you.

I hope it helps you a great deal. Make sure you remember that many people do not show a response immediately, even when their bodies are gratefully getting to work with the tools they've been lacking.

Best wishes to you,

rose

Just to clarify this whole b12 defiency thing, once I have had enough injections to build up my stores do I need one every few months for the rest of my life or is that just when someone has PA? I am assuming that I do not have PA beacuse my first mma and hcy came back normal and the IF was negative. I guess why Iam deficent or low is still up in the air.

When B12 deficiency exists, unless something that can be remedied (such as an overgrowth of bacteria, parasites, etc.) was found to have caused it, and that cause is removed, it is assumed that B12 deficiency will occur again due to malabsorption.

The MMA and Hcy tests were done yesterday and you have results already? I'm confused. If no B12 has been taken, usually one of those is elevated when deficiency exists, but not always. And those two tests do not determine whether or not PA exists.

Even if the parietal cell test had been done along with the one for IF antibodies, and if both had come back normal, lessening production of IF (which can eventually disappear----true pernicious anemia) would not have been ruled out.

Usually doctors don't bother to look for a cause. That is too bad, because if the cause is not gastric atrophy and/or loss of intrinsic factor, it may be important to know.

Bottom line: never take your B12 stores for granted. Always keep them up. Oral doses of at least 1000 mcg should do it. It is extremely rare for shots to be necessary.

I'm tired, so let me know if this is not clear or did not answer completely.

rose

I did not ge the results from the blood work that the hematologist yet. Back when this all started (read post #4, its a little confusing) originally, in June 07, I went to an endo. complaining of fatigue, hair loss and memory loss. I thought it was my thryroid acting up. He was the one who checked my b12 level. It was 209 and the folate was 13. TIBC 340 Iron 62 and iron sat. 18%. Thats when I started investigating b12 deficiency. My regular G.P. did not know what to make of all this but since I had seen a gastroenterologist back when I was in my 20's He thought I should go see him again to straighten this all out. In July 07 I went to see a gastroenterologist, he ran more blood work. ( take into mind that one month ago the endo told me to take a good b complex. Before this test was done I was taking alot of suppliments)
B12 - 293
Folate - 24
mma - 109
hcy - 24
I.F. negative (I did not fast for any of this bloodwork)
He thought my b12 was normal maybe slightly low, but considering my complaints he thought I should have my regular G.P. do the blood work again in a month. I just decided that my best bet would be to see a hemotologist. When I went over old blood work (all the way back to 1990, I worked for a pharmaceutical so I was required to have a full exam every year) I saw a pattern in the cbc work up. This may be to much info. and going back way to far. I just assumed from the blood work (above) done in july of 07 that I did not have PA. I will get the blood work form that was done on 9/16/07 in about a week or so.

Dose this make any sense now?

Aha! I thought I remembered something like that.

It is crucial that you remember that the MMA and Hcy, and the increased folate and B12 were measured AFTER you had been taking the B complex for a month. Your MMA may have been much higher before the month of B complex.

If you did not malabsorb severely, but only malabsorbed from food, the B complex would give you plenty of B12 to bring your level up.

What is the normal range on your homocysteine test result? That number is quite high using the units of measure I am familiar with.

Malabsorption from food has not been ruled out. Pernicious anemia (lack of intrinsic factor) was apparently not present when these tests were done because you showed benefits from the B complex (someone with PA would not benefit from the usual B complex-----they would need at the very least hundreds of mcg to show any benefit).

Pernicious anemia could still result, so you should be taking enough B12 to still get through if that happens. At least 1000 mcg doses orally.

Regarding fasting: I think it is a good idea to treat every blood test as a fasting blood test.

I hope you keep up that B12 in large doses.

rose

[QUOTE=rose;138423]Aha! I thought I remembered something like that.


What is the normal range on your homocysteine test result? That number is quite high using the units of measure I am familiar with.

HI ROSE<
(here's another example of how ignorant a doctor and his staff can be)

First of all I made a mistake: the Folate serum # was >24 the homocysteine (nutritional) was 5.6

When I received the fax of the results from the doc's office I could not read any of the ref. ranges . I called there office back and asked them to re-fax it. THey said there copy was just as bad, it did not matter anyway because nothing was out of range so I did not need to know the ranges. I said, as a matter of fact the MCH was highlighted as out of range at 33.4, therefore I would like to know what all the ranges are can you please get me a better copy from the lab. She got an attitude, thought that I should just trust them but said she would get a copy but it would take a long time.

Today I felt real bad I took one of the b12 lozenges and then a couple of hours later I took 2 more. I got really bad heartburn. Is that because I took to much? Iam here alone with my kids and they are board to death (i can't seem to get out of bed) I thought it would give me more energy, Iam feeling rather guilty making them watch t.v while I lay down.

No telling what homocysteine was before all that B complex (good!), but it's good now. May have been higher before, but may not have been. It is common for it not to be high when B12 deficiency is present.

Folate. Good.

It is not likely that the methylcobalamin dose had anything to do with that. If it did, you're body is working on something, maybe the impulses to muscles affecting the sphincter. I have not heard that before, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. My diaphragm was affected, eventually affecting my speach and ability to sing on key. Took a long time to recover. If you're body is working on the sphincter so soon, good. Otherwise, it's probably just a coincidence.

One of my major pet peeves has become the ease with which sooo many doctors lie to their patients about lab results. Even the jerks who allowed this to happen to me didn't do that! But now I am seeing what appears to be an epidemic of it. My most direct experience is that of my aunt, for whom I take responsibility in some areas, including obtaining and managing so-called health care. I had her switch doctors when the one she was with said everything was fine (even put it in writing!!) when cholesterol, triglicerides and a couple of other things she could have worked on. That's when I took over and had her change "doctors." The next one said to us and an independent party how good her results were on the next set of tests. Four things were flagged as out of range, and they were important things. Two were things I had asked for: glycation was high, and ferritin was 295 (dozens of points over normal and only a few from "overload").

Disgusting! Then I had to fax him a copy of the law to get her records, which had been requesting properly and delivery of which was officially late. He was still was going to sit on his hands, so arrogant he thought he could just give them up if and when he pleased.

I even tried an expensive and prestigious holistic MD, and besides him being absolutely no help, it took four tries to finally get a copy of lab results including ranges. Forget him.

Ack! rant, rant.

It wasn't easy, but I finally found a doc for my aunt who speaks with us as tough we are sentient beings, actually has the lab results organized to share and discuss, as well as ready making copies available when asked.

rose

By the way, my aunt's labs have improved immensely since she has continued with dietary changes and supplements I have carefully chosen. Labs have, in fact, improved beyond what I would have expected.

People need to have the opportunity to help themselves. If they won't, no one can do anything about it, but to lie about results until things are worse and then insist on a drug is maddening. Costs in lives, mobility, health, and precious resources that could be helping someone.

Guess that last post wasn't the end of my rant.

rose

There is a really good Dr. here in N.Y. he combines modern medicne and holistic old world. He has a talk radio show that I happen to be listening to so I decided to call and see what he thought about b12. He said anyone who's level is under 500, and has symptoms, should automatically be given shots with out another thought about it. If you want to check him out he has a web site. drhoffman.com He has a center in N.Y. they also sell lots of good vitamins and supplements.