dear bobby,
It makes me angry with you over these rules of order....Is she new to you or have you already established a relationship with her.
I agree with folks have said to you ...ask you what you see as a problem and your meds do need to be adjusted.
I am sorry that you are still dealing with such depression.
I jsut started reading twilight...really enjoy that simplisity and romance. saw the movies as well.
I hope that you can better communicate your needs about these issues...when do you see her again?
((((HUGS)))))
hugs to you
bizi

Bobby,
There must be a book that has a page the doc's use for good things to accomplish...they forgot the footnote that says, just reading and saying "I thought about it" and that is a goal to meet for the goal and just as important.

I think anyone telling me I had to shower every day, I would not want to do it. Like in the hospital they come in hand you towels and say ok shower time....why the heck, I am sick in hospital the shower helps HOW?

It takes a lot of emotional energy, and physical desire to get showers.....
I still bargin, I am not shaving the legs for the winter and if I want, I will wash the hair later.
Getting out of the shower wet and dressing is one thing, dealing with the hair at that moment is another.

I do like my bubble baths, too.

So many of the meds can and do cause the medical problems. Many of those symptoms can be from meds....Flash back to doc, well if I take these meds and feel even worse, what makes you think a shower a day is going to make me feel better. I would feel better, IF I COULD FEEL BETTER>
di

Oh wow...I hope I remember to tell her if the medications don't make me feel better, how will a daily shower,morning walk and changing into new clothes will make me feel better. ..and then add that the pressure she is creating for me is making me feel worse. it is not supportive. I don't know. Maybe she should be creative and just find ways of being supportive to me.
I also keep my apartment on the cold side so that is another thing about taking a daily washing. I usually just want to crawl back into bed.
I so badly want to be productive again. I also want to warn people about the dangers of all these medications and it is appearing they have caused more problems than helped. Being this fat now is so bad for my self esteem besides energy level. I don't have a sense of humor about it. ...more like rage.
Bobby

you're the second person to say they loved blind side...must check that out!
twilight is a romantic love story about bellla a young highschooler who falls in love with her class mate, who happens to be a vampire.
Tiwlight you can rent at the video stores and new moon is still in the theaters. there are 4 books out so far with a fith one on the way. a third movie comes out summer 2010.
bizi

Dear Bobby,

Can you talk to her?
Maybe ask her what she sees as her role.
And then for example, tell her you do not need her for instructions. Or, for that matter, rules. We've got enough rules.
Let her know that you are working on being compassionate toward yourself and others and forcing yourself to bathe and shower everyday is not compatible with that.
Tell her what your focus IS.

Let her know exactly how she is helping and how she is not.
Tell her what you do need her for.
Give her suggestions on what you need help with.


Basically, redirect her and give her a different focus.
Maybe the both of you can find a way for her to actually help you.

M.

Bobby,

That would be so cool if wearing clean clothes every day would help. What an idea to consider that wearing clean clothes would help with bipolar depression. How did she come up with that?

Is she actually an idiot?
'Sorry not being helpful here.


Work with her. Think of this as a teachable moment. It will take some energy but it will be worth it in the long run.

I'm going to bed.

M.

Dear Bobby,

i had started a longer reply to you last night but got interrupted. now i find myself a little uninspired. i don't feel like i can say it in two words.

HOWEVER, FWIW

The same way lots of professionals do! This is not the discovery of the century, it is good clinical practice to encourage good personal hygiene. And other personal routines. As for the method of "encouragement" used, that is another kettle of fish.

I personally DO NOT think your therapist is an idiot!

I personally DO think that wearing clean clothes and showering regularly can, YES, help bipolar disorder. (once a day is a negotiable example of regularity, is how i see it.)

I am a bit irritated right now because LOTS AND LOTS of STUFF PEOPLE HAVE GONE GAGA over - links to self-help etc that have been posted on this forum - talk about how having a routine etc, getting physical exercise etc, help. We all "Thank" those articles when they get posted and give advice... take a walk, a warm bath... bla bla bla. some articles are more aggressive than others, about getting up dressing up showing up etc... putting on makeup???
Now suddenly people are flipping out here over the same things?
Aren't we throwing out the infamous baby with the dreaded bathwater here?
Consistency anyone?

Bobby,

If you were able to do those things daily/regularly, i do believe you would feel better... gradually. Self-grooming has a psychological impact. It won't make you thinner, but self-grooming is an act of love, of physical commitment to oneself... in a "body is your temple" sort of way. It could help you not hate your body as much for however much adipose tissue it might have gathered.

Getting off Zyprexa was not a matter of luck by the way. After I went up that last clothing size I told my pdoc right away, "look i keep packing on more weight, and i'm to the point of being uncomfortable with myself - I don't want to gain another ounce because then i am really going to hate my body." He took me OFF it immediately, leaving it for use only over a few days for more acute states. He got my hating my body was going to hurt my moods in the end, no matter how well the med worked otherwise.

It doesn't sound like your T expects you to make changes gradually?

What i see as the more likely problem is your being asked to do too much too fast, considering ALL of your situation. Sure i think it would help (if you could get there), but being something unreasonable (for now) it is just plain discouraging, counterproductive. In this sense, the suggestions, to this degree, in the here and now, are not helpful to you at all - i do agree with that 100%.

It's like the old Nike ad: "JUST DO IT." like the old Nike ad. I hate that ad. It so does not work with depression for me - it's like, if i could do this stuff, i wouldn't be in therapy!!! But occasionally someone else who had (BAD) depression told me it hadn't worked for them but it was working at some point. I think it depends on a lot of subtle aspects too. And I don't personally care for the word rules in this context but i don't know how that came up.

Sometimes a therapist will make a first attempt to spur the patient - then, if it doesn't work, other kinds of approaches are made. That is what could be happening.

I think it's absolutely fine for you to be angry and the fact that you feel totally misunderstood and your situation misunderstood needs to be brought to her attention very very clearly - and perhaps repeatedly. I suspect your physical difficulties are likely being under-estimated. One thing i like about this woman is that she sees potential in you and is trying to bring it out. You know, even your anger is a psychologically active and not passive response - which is good. Go with the anger... take it from there.

I had to work with my therapist on various things - and with some the confrontation was hard on me and it took several attempts. other times not so hard but was almost ready to give up when he finally got it. the thing is no relationship is going to be smooth-sailing. and if you like this person, i think it is worth sharing your anger with her.

i really think this is what it's all about right now.

It is of course always up to you if you want to change therapists at any time. All i can say is no therapist is perfect, and liking this one as a person is a good sign. I have had huge objections about my therapist, questioned his competence and all - and thought about terminating on several occasions - but usually the imperfections "matter more" when he has upset me somehow. He is good in some ways. He is not as good in others. He is a good person however and if i started with someone else everything i have "worked out" relationshipwise with him, would have to be re-established. Working on the relationship is a big part of therapy, and the better that gets, the better help you will get.

I hope i haven't upset you. i am trying to be totally frank and then of course you may not agree with what i say but i don't want to just post reactionary stuff on your therapist even if that might be a comfort right now, like a statement of being on your side and where your T is on some other side. I AM on your side, regardless what you do with your therapist.

You hang in there. Keep reading and hanging out with your kitties. I'm very glad to hear about your breakthrough with the fear of death and God - that is really huge. Good luck with the Celexa - i took it for a while you know. it was ok, i mean nothing awful with it, certainly no weight gain, and it was effective. i hope the same for you.

love

~ waves ~

your thoughtful post upset me a little but it had a lot of wisdom. I think i do feel i am waging a battle with her now. She is Greek and was raised in Egypt. Right now i feel I would rather ask her what it was like being raised in Egypt.
Even Dr. Moussavian told me that taking a shower every day is invigorating.
I really do feel like a child rebelling. I have always had trouble with authority and took a test my last year at Penn as to what profession I should go into.
I came out high on becoming a fireman because they are the most anti authority. Right now I really don't feel connected to anybody. I felt so connected with my schnauzer Morgy and my kitty cat Snowball. Right now I feel so isolated. A lot of the time, I feel I HAVE GIVEN UP
LOVE
bOBBY

i giggled at your response. it would be cool if we could just do something external and then feel peace of mind. I think we have to get rid of the ego to have peace of mind but then how would we defend ourselves and separate when somebody is giving good advice or easy advice. You are right this is a teachable moment. What shall I teach her? How it feels to be bipolar and have had different therapists and feel still so misunderstood.
Bobby

Yes i didn't realize it but i am working on being compassionate finally to myself after all these years. My close friend thought that in older age it was a time for giving. That got me furious because like you since I was a very young child, I started with the giving and the neglecting. Who knows maybe not wanting to bath frequently is a rebellion although the thought of it is still stressful. The crappy thing is that I do feel very compassionate most of the time towards others and I want to help. At this age and stage I can't figure out how and I feel so empty. So far it doesn't feel good to try to feel compassionate towards yourself. It feels selfish and self absorbed and makes me realize how alone I am. That doesn't make sense either. I now have a therapist and a psychiatrist. I have a woman who comes in to clean and she is even cooking for me twice a week at .75 a hour courtesy of the department of aging. She is a sparkling gem. On Friday she even tried to cook some domican republic food that she bought in a store and was going to have for her own meals. I give her a lot of things but still feel guilty at her hard work while I am doing nothing. I mentioned my friend Robert who has been walking me around the block with wonder dog Mickey. He thinks I should get a dog which would force me to go outside and walk better and he probably thinks the responsibility would be good for me. I am tormented over this. What if the doggy got sick. It would mean more vet bills. Also I went through the heart ache of Snowball being sick most of his life and then dying young. I wouldN'T trade a minute of having that incredible deep souled kitty cat in my life. What a gift from God. Then I went through the hell of Morgy having bone cancer. He handled it so nobly.
Now I am just so confused. I keep on getting flooded with dreams. I have no idea what they are telling me. The therapist doesn't do dream analysis. I tell her I have terrible problems sleeping,-a lot of times I just get three hours- and the medications don't help the depression. I AM SO CONFUSED. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT TO WORK ON. EVERYTHING IS SUCH A MESS AND I FEEL I HAVE NO DIRECTION EXCEPT TO TRY TO LOSE WEIGHT AND TO GET BACK INTO BETTER SHAPE SO I CAN WALK MORE THAN AROUND THE BLOCK.
bOBBY