I'm not sure what the hungover effect is.

I got permission today, to start taking mine.

1 300 in the morning

2 300 in the evening. And I hope this helps, I have the hardest time remembering the middle afternoon dosage.


So I would really like to know what the hungover effect is. But I haven't I don't think ever had one.

Good luck Mari, I know its needed to feel better.

Donna:grouphug::hug:

Dear Mari,

short answer: generally, yes the "hangover" effect should go away. depending on the situation it can happen very quickly or very slowly. with high doses (bear in mind, ppl take up to 5 grams of this stuff) it might not happen at all.

long answer: i never felt hungover in the true sense... it made me feel more drunk than hung over. when i was ramping up this last time, i couldn't walk straight, or at least felt like i wasn't walking straight. this would be accounted for by the sedative effect.

in my case the sedative effect has always gone away quickly in the past. when i would take it to sleep, 300 mg would only work for 1 or 2 nights, and after that it would do nothing at all. this time, i was also on a pretty high dose of Depakote (1500mg) and i think the combined effect was causing problems. it seemed like depending how i spaced the doses i got the drunk effect worse or not so bad or not at all. but if i backed off on a dose just one day, then took more again, it would get worse again... it seemed that tolerance to the sedative effect was hard to develop for me in these conditions, contrary to my prior experience with gabapentin. i was taking 900-1200 mg which is somewhat irrelevant insofar as it seems to me you are pretty sensitive to some meds, ie. you seem to respond to, or experience effects, at very low doses.

i am wondering if the morning sedation (if that is what you mean by hungover?) is caused by a combination of the klonopin and gabapentin.

on a weekend i might experiment with taking less klonopin at night and see if the "hangover" effect lessens.

well those are pretty much my exhaustive thoughts other than i'm sorry it isn't helping the nerve pain yet... bit early for that, sigh. :o

it might take you a while to get used to it, but if it can be done it might be worth it.

sending you hopeful wishes and (((hugs)))

~ waves ~

Depressed. Not sure if I can manage to go into work in the morning / Friday.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Waves,
Maybe it is not exactly a hangover. I feel sleepy all the time (more than I did before the Gabapentin). I feel more brain fog than I used to. I also feel dulled (which is prolly the same as brain fog.) This is bringing down my already low mood even more. I might hang onto the dose one more week or I might decide to cut it back to 150 approx. I felt less crappy at 150 approx.

Thanks for the Klonopin talk. Good ideas. I have to think through how that would work. My normal dose at night (once daily) is 2.5. I could do fine on 2.00 one night. I don't know how I would feel the second night at 2.5.
For a while, about twice a year I used to bring down my Klonopin dose to 2.25/ 2.5. Before the end of the second week I would become agitated and depressed. The last time I returned to 2.5, I stayed there.

M

. . . Astonished by how depressed I am getting by the minute.
I should sleep. I don't know how I can face work.
I made hubby sit next to me while I brushed and flossed since it had been a while for either.

M

i am not sure what to say except i hope you feel better sooner. it sounds a lot like the medication. nothing more stressful is happening in your life right now, right? I feel so bad for you.
bobby

I am glad that your hubby is being supportive of you this morning. sorry you are going thru this. yes I think going back to 150 is a good idea.
(((((HUGS))))))

Dear Mari

the test with the Klonopin would be just a one time "test." i thought it might help you figure out if sedation by potentiation were the problem.

I did not mean to imply that you permanently modify your daily Klonopin dosage to accomodate more gabapentin, based on what happened in the "test." On the contrary, if you felt better the day after shaving off 0.5mg Klonopin once, that would suggest to me that gabapentin isn't going to be viable, precisely because you do need the Klonopin.

the way you described your experience in your most recent post, it sounds like there is a lot of sedation and cognitive dulling going on. whether the Klonopin is potentiating it, we don't know for sure but i'd suspect it. that's a pretty decent dose of Klonopin there. you could still try the test, or not, up to you.

however, since you are feeling this badly, with increasing depression on top of the rest, i agree with everyone else that stepping back to 150 might be a good idea without bothering to experiment.

did you say you took 220mg gabapentin for a while or do i remember screwy? did that work ok? if so, i would take 150mg to get well again faster, and then step up to 220mg again if you could tolerate that.

i am trying to figure out how you are getting these dosages because as far as i know gabapentin only comes in 100's, 300's and 400's, capsules, and splitting the powder is not real precise.

i am sorry this whole experience is such a trial. :(:hug: gabapentin was manna from heaven for me on so many occasions. i am so sad that it is giving you such trouble.

(((:heartthrob: hugs :heartthrob:)))

~ waves ~

mood and food
 

Dear Bobby,

Thanks so much for helping me figure out what is going on. After reading your post I remembered that the only thing that has changed is that I went on a very very low carb diet for three days. I had some honeydew melon each night. That was it for carbs.

This morning after reading your post, I ate an apple for breakfast before work.
That depressed mood from last night seems to have lifted.

That tells me that I can have two fruits a day to maintain mood.

Mari

a one time "test"
 

Dear Waves,

I apologize for not understanding and for not being clear. My brain was barely with it last night at the time I posted.

Maybe the low carb diet for three days (approx 35 carbs each day) affected the mood and prolly my cognition.

Right now Friday night I am posting within 45 minutes of coming home from work. I am usually up mood wise at this time. This is the highest cognitive level I will have for the day. When I get off the computer, I will take part 1 of my night meds and the little cognition I have right now will fall apart (too stupid to write out here about why there is a part 1 and a part 2).

I understood that. I was wondering if a two day weekend would work.

O.K. Now I see that the suggestion was to do this one night only. One night would give good results. If necessary I could do the one night trial again a week later on a second weekend. I'm comfortable doing that with the Klonopin tonight: shaving off 0.5.

Yes. I'm taking a decent amount of Klonopin. It's been working. Mdoc prescribed the Gabapentin for nerve pain and I got the happy effects of
~less anxiety
~less depression.

Around the time I went to 300 on the Gabapentin on Oct 24, the drugged feeling became too much.

I'll go back and read through this thread again and get back to you. Right now, I want to get through this post.

Yes. Splitting the powder is not precise.
Mdoc gave me pills for 900 mgs a day, The capsules are for 150 each. That gave me a lot of room to work. I threw away a lot of powder.
When I was taking 220 mgs. approx I would do the following:
1. take one pill at 150
2. take half of another pill at about 75.

That added up to 220 approx. When I pulled apart the capsules, I opened them so that the pill was vertical. Then I kept the powder in the bottom half and let the powder from the top half fall onto my work space. Then I tossed that powder in the trash instead of trying to save it to measure it for the next night.

As I write this, I recognize how completely crazy batty it is to split capsules. I am putting off dealing with mdoc for a few more weeks. I will see her very soon and get 'scripts for 100 mgs.
I am not looking forward to the convo in which I explain why I am taking such tiny doses compared to the 900 mgs in the script.


M

Big dosing mistake
 

Waves and Biz and Bobby,


Splitting the pills got me confused. :confused:

This is exactly what the bottle reads: 300 mgs capsule. Take one capsule by mouth three times a day. Mdoc wanted me to take 900 mgs a day.

After messing around with the powder since back in May or June I lost track of of how much was in each capsule. :eek:


Recently I have been taking two capsules of exactly 300 mgs each for 600 total mgs. That means I have been taking 600 mgs when I thought I was taking 300 mgs.

600 appears to be two high for me.

Some other time I will go through the thread to see if I can figure out the point I screwed up. Probably that will be when I made a dose change.

For tonight, I have no idea what to do.

I'll post after I have a plan. I have to get away from the computer for now.

M

please reduce slowly - seizure risk
 

Dear Mari :hug::hug::hug:

i just want to remind you gabapentin is an AED so abrupt cessation or reduction puts one at risk for seizure. i am worried because i know you are freaked out about taking more than you thought, and are feeling foggy too.

in consideration of having taken 600mg (2 caps) per day for a couple of weeks already, here is my suggestion:

please take at least 300mg (1 cap) for 2 or 3 days in the way of a taper, to be on the safe side.

i think you will feel much better very fast anyway - this stuff clears out fast. after a couple days at 300mg, you can lower the dose further or suspend if you need to.

~ waves ~

Waves,

I appreciate your help. :hug: :hug: :hug:

Yes, as recently as a few days ago I read about how important it is to taper Gabapentin -- that tapering it is as important as tapering a benzo.

I still have not decided what dose to take tonight.
I have been considering 300+half for 450 mgs approx. I won't take any lower than 300. Promise.

I don't plan on quitting the Gabapentin. It is helping with anxiety and depression. I might have to re-experiment to figure out what does was the perfect dose for that.
More likely I will take 450 tonight and find a clear headed moment some time this week end to go through the thread to figure out what does was the good dose.

M

Dear Mari

i am glad to hear back from you and that you remembered about tapering the gabapentin.

i hope you start feeling better soon. :hug::hug::hug:

~ waves ~

dear Mari, glad that you have this thread to help assist you for reference. Maybe the 300mg dose is going to be the right dose? Since we know that the 600mg is too much. just a reminder that spliting your doses like that is really not accurate because I don't think the capsules are full to begin with. but am not sure.
that was a huge jump for you, no wonder you were feeling so overly medicated.
I am hoping that you feel better in the next couple of days at the lower dose.
Good thing that you caught that.
wishing you a good weekend.
are you getting some good sleep?
((((HUGS))))
bizi

Dear Mari
 

How is it going?

how much gabapentin did you end up taking?

how are you feeling?

i hope that you are feeling significantly better and also managing to sleep.

:hug::hug::hug:

~ waves ~

Hi,

Friday night dose for taper: 400 mgs approx -- 1 and slightly less than 1/2 capsules)

Saturday night dose for taper: 300 mgs (1 capsule).

Tonight / Sunday night plan: 300 mgs approx. I'm worried about tapering too fast.

Monday night plan: Maybe I can go down 150 mgs Monday night and stay there. I was at 600 mgs for exactly 18 days.

My sleep is awful. I had a few hours of sleep here and there the past two nights. I am hungover and drugged -- hard to judge the effect of the Gabapentin because of the very little sleep. I am sure I hate the side effects of Gabapentin at these doses.

M

sorry about your lack of sleep.
Your taper sounds good.
maybe you can nap today?
((((HUGS))))
bizi

Dear Mari
 

the taper plan sounds good Mari.

i am sorry you are still feeling awful. one would think if the drug makes you feel so overmedicated, it could at least afford you more sleep in the process!!! :(:mad:

:hug::hug::hug:

~ waves ~ hoping things clear up soon :heartthrob:

looking at history of the thread to find out where I lost track of dose
 

Hi,
Here are the five times I mentioned the dose. The italics are my comments today.


First mention of dose:
June 25: one half a capsule. After one week I felt less anxiety


Second mention of dose:
September 9: 200 mgs (more than half a capsule.)
(This could mean that I started taking 1 capsule plus part of a second for about 400 mgs)


Third mention of dose:
September 25: Raised dose to 200 mgs
(I have no idea what dose I was taking Perhaps it was 500 mgs.)


Fourth mention of dose:
October 24: Raised dose to two capsules.
(That means I was taking 600 mgs.)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

My records lose track of dose somewhere between June 25 and September 9. :eek:

The capsules are 300 mgs each. Pdoc said relief of nerve pain happens at 300 or 600 for 4 weeks. I have been over 300 since Sept 9. I can go back now to the very low dose that helped me with anxiety and depression: Somewhere between 150 and 300.
Side effects at 600 are too high. 300 might be ok but I feel like carp today so I will take 300 mgs a second time (tonight) before lowering the dose.

Look backwards, I feel like Alice . . . taking random amounts with random results.
Jefferson Airplane - White Rabbit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HmJQyS8QVw

I will see mdoc in a few weeks and get pills in 100 mgs. I will tell her to stop being so hyper crazy and let me take low dosages.
Back in June she wanted me to START at 900 mgs for nerve pain!! :holysheep:
I said no. She said yes. I left the office knowing I would take micro amounts to start.

Thank you for helping me work this out.

M

Waves,

That is exactly what one would think and hope.

Not so . . . . nothing except a miracle will help me sleep. I do believe in miracles. :D

M

Hugs to you today.
((((((((HUGS))))))
it is good that you figured out the mishap.
bizi

looking in other threads now
 

Hi,

I'm finding places in other threads where I mentioned my dose of Gabapentin:

July 22: Posted about taking a third of a 300 mgs capsule which was less than the night before.
I was concerned I was getting too happy/ up. Perhaps the night before I took a half a capsule.

July 23: Posted that I was still under 300 mgs daily. I wrote that I took 200 mgs approx

August 15: Posted that I raised the dose to a full capsule. That means I started taking 300 mgs then.


+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_

This is all over the place in many threads. I should have put it in one thread.
I stopped reading because I was sad in lots of those posts. Anyway, I have enough info: I could take 300 or less.

I started taking 300 mgs on August 15.

At some point before August 15 I started having problems with word recall (DO not feeling like looking for that thread. Backtracking is soooooooooo depressing. My last five months was full of posts complaining about sadness.)

I'm done with this. Time to think of something else. . . .Place some loud music.


M

Mari

Good luck with your dosage.

I would suggest that you try to stay with 300mg if at all possible.

I know that for my pain and nerve damage, its taking the whole 900mg.
So I'm glad its not taking that much for you.

But I also now that I have some of the word problems.


But I associate that with my having hit my head.

Donna:grouphug:

depressed. crying. afraid of going into work.
 

Hi,

I am too depressed to go into work.
. . . slept four hours after 4 or 5 nights in a row with the same
. . .woke up crying.

I really have to go to work, but I am afraid of freaking out or crying or doing something that upsets people. . . .

M

can you call in sick?

i hope you feel better soon. :o :hug::hug::hug:

~ waves ~

I am sorry for your lack of sleep. and it pains me to hear that you are crying.
I am so sorry that you are this depressed.
would you consider trying a small dose of welbutrin?
((((HUGS)))))
bizi

go back up on the Gabapentin?
 

Hi,
Waking up like that is not good. . .. .
But due to the expansive sleep deficit, I have no way to know what is causing the depression . . .. Sleep can't be fixed. Perhaps The Gabapentin can be raised from the 200 mgs (a little less than one capsule) I am taking now.

And again I am confusing when I write. Sorry.

M

I am sorry about the sleep, always am.
Is one capsule 300mg?
then I think that would be an ok dose for you.
what do you think?
bizi

Bizi

Mari posted earlier that her capsules are 300 mg.

when she started the therapy, she was noticing improvement in mood with half a capsule.

not sure what dosages were used in titration - would have to look back and have some kinda headache again (migraine? not sure) :(: so not gonna do that right now.

she became very depressed - but was sleeping - when she jumped to 600mg (2 capsules) thinking it was 300 mg

~ waves ~

Mari

unclear to me what you did now, after dropping to 300 mg (1 capsule). i thought the intention was then to go to half a capsule (150 mg), which was a "known good" dose. did you do that, and for how many days?

or have you always taken "slightly more than half" after the decrease from the full capsule?

i guess i am talking in capsules now to make sure we don't get mixed up again. ;)

going back up to 300 mg (1 capsule) is an option if that had you sleeping... it may take longer for the depression to lift....or

---------------------------

do you think 3.0 mg would help you sleep more for a couple of days, just to catch up a bit so you can be in better shape to figure out if the depression is from sleep deprivation or from the gabapentin?

~ waves ~

i am so sorry you are going through this. do you get a thanksgiving break or just two days off. maybe you can just lie in bed and feel no pressure.
take care
bobby

dose mess continues
 

Dear Waves,



Yes. That was the plan. My best guess is that I was taking about 150 (one half capsule) Monday November 14 and each night this week. Friday November 18 morning I woke up depressed.


I'm not really sure what i was taking this week.

I need to track better.

Last night (Friday) I took once capsule and a little more (400 mgs approx).


This is what I have been trying to track in this thread:
1. help with nerve pain
2. help with agitation
3. help with depression.


Agitation improved in the first week or so.
Depression improved. I adjusted the med around late summer/ early fall because I wanted more help with depression
Nerve pain has not been helped.


I need to find the right dose for balance between help with depression and huge drugged hung over feeling.

I will call Monday for an appointment with hyper mdoc to explain that I want 600 mgs per day in 100 mgs capsules.
(My guess is that I need a daily dose around 300 or a little more. I am 100% comfortable lying to her about how much I really take.)

M

Dear Bizi,
Thanks.
Yes, one capsule is 300 mgs.
I think I might need more than one capsule and less than two capsules.

My guess is I need between 300 to 450 mgs.


I will ask mdoc for 100 mgs capsules so I can more easily experiment with dose.

M

Dear Bobby,

Yes. Thanksgiving is good. I have no plans except to stay home. I get two days off. They will be very nice for lying in bed.

M

Mari

I didn't realize they made 100mg pills. Of gabapentin.

I know when I miss a dosage of my med i have problems, so I'm
guessing thats part of your problem changing the dosage. So I think
getting it to were you are at least averaging it to a good amount
normally.

donna:grouphug::hug:

Dear Mari

thanks for explaining about what happened after dropping to a single capsule. sorry things are still confused.:o i absolutely agree about getting 100mg capsules to help keep track of dose.

------------------------

i screwed up editing my other post it seems so this question became nonsensical. :( here is the correction - missing stuff in red.

i hope you feel better soon. do you keep a chart at all? it is hard to track things. i haven't got back to charting ... sigh ... it would help with all that is going on, but it's just one more thing to do, isn't it? sigh.

i hope you get more sleep and less depression soon, somehow. have you thought about putting a call in to see if pdoc can help you, temporarily? i'm not sure with what. you've probably thought of that.

lots of hugs

~ waves ~

Waves,
Yes, raising or lowering the Klonopin for a night would work.

I'm not charting. I thought (HAAAA!) that I was doing a version of charting by posting on this thread. The thread is too long to find what I need and I mentioned my dose in other threads at the same time (argh!).

You are correct that if I had a habit of doing something regularly I could keep up the routine.

Mari

new plan to go to bed
 

Hi,

I slept very little last night (Friday night) and felt drugged / hungover all day today (Saturday). I have no memory of anything I did today. I might have been watching TV but not paying any attention. I don't feel depressed -- that's good.

Tonight (Saturday) this is what I took

~300 mgs Gabapentin (exactly 1 capsule) This is less than the night before
~2.0 Klonopin This is less than most nights of 2.5
~Verapamil
~aspirin
~magnesium


(Yes, I know I changed two things. It was impulsive. I could still take the 0.5. Klonopin now but am choosing not to. I might be clear headed tomorrow. That would be beautiful.

One minute after I swallowed the meds I set the kitchen alarm for one hour. When the alarm goes off I will go to bed whether I feel like it or not.

I have involved Hubby in the project. He has agreed to assist. The kitchen timer is now saying 45 mins.

M

sounds like a good plan, you can always take the extra klonipin if you need it.
I hope you sleep tonight and am very happy hubby is involved.
((((HUGS))))
bizi

Thanks Bizi,

I am running behind my bed time schedule. I am doing some laundry and other things like checking the computer.

I hope to be in bed soon.

M