The pharmacy allowed me to refill the Lamictal a few days early. I can pick it up at 4:00 today.

M

Yippeee!!!! :):)

Well done getting that taken care of! :):hug:

waves

yeah! well done!
bizi

Depressed
 

I woke up feeling ok-- I always feel good when I first wake up.

Then I got to work, dealt with a few people, and got soooooo depressed.
I got permission to leave to go home.

Somedays everything is too hard to deal with.

I wish the "somedays" were few and far between instead of most days.
M

Dear Mari :Heart:

Yes, it is hard when depression lurks most of the time. I am glad you asked to go home today.

I send you warm thoughts and lots of hugs :hug::hug::hug:

Here's hoping today picks up some for you, and that better days lie ahead.

waves

glad that you went home, wish you felt better.
((((HUGS))))
bizi

I do not see how I can possibly expected to show up for work tomorrow. I feel awful.

Hi Mari. Call them up in the morning,and tell them you are not feeling well,and you cannot come in. BF:hug::hug::hug:

Hi, Steve, :hug: :grouphug:

Thanks for being here.

Mari

Dear Mari,

See how you feel when you wake up, both generally speaking, and with regard to work. You might feel differently after you get some rest. Otherwise, call in sick.

Whatever you decide and whatever happens, be kind to yourself today. You have been having a hard time for so long. Right now, you are also getting used to a new med. Life is even more challenging than usual.

(((((HUGS)))))

waves

thinking of you today.
((((HUGS)))))
bizi

I've been catching up on the thread. Sending some hugs.

Donna :hug::grouphug:

I hope you have been able to rest, relax and enjoy the weekend, Mari, and that you are feeling much better.

Check in when you are up to it...

(((hugs)))

waves

here is hoping that you don't have to go in early today.
bizi

I stared the Lamital at 25 on July 17.
I was on it for two weeks.

Since went to 50 mgs Lamictal.
It will be three weeks of 50 mgs Lamictal when I see pdoc on Tuesday/ August 20.

THREE WEEKS!
This is a long taper. I think he was supposed to give me more pills and some actual instructions the last time I saw him.


Did I tell you I am depressed?
M

Bizi, Donna, and Waves,

Thanks for the kind words and hugs.

I am having a hard time but making it.
Depressed, tired, and overwhelmed but not anxious tonight.


For the past few days I have been thinking a lot about my work friend who passed away. Certain times of the year I think about him.
I realized tonight to the degree that I am ANGRY at a couple of people who I dislike and never want to see again because they were not supportive of me both leading up to his death or afterwards.

I could try to get over that because I can get over most things, but I am holding onto it --- that there was a lot of pain watching him try to live as he was dying, dealing with his death, dealing with his students who lost a teacher two thirds of the way into the term, dealing with his wife and kid (and finally packing them up to move across the country).
His daily struggle to come to work even when he lost considerable weight, had primary responsibility for his son because the wife had inflexible work hours and commuted farther, and helped me up to the very end by being my friend and letting me be his friend.

Except for Work Buddy, those people were not there for me as I dealt with any of that. For them, my friend's struggle never existed and my pain afterwards did not happen.
AND for Work Buddy and me, our jobs became almost impossibly hard for the next two years.
We felt that we were all by ourselves.
The two of us are still recovering from that time period too.

(I think I am venting. . . . )

Mari

Lamictal titration
 

I am sorry the Lamictal and the new pdoc are a struggle for you. Wish meds were easier. My understanding is you have enough pills (with script renewal) but the instructions on the pill bottle applied to the initial "plan". He should have reviewed the new plan with you when you last saw him. Part of the point of seeing you is to make sure you are safe, and the other part, as I see it, is to confirm or update the medication plan. :o Because plans can and do change.

==============
I do think that going slowly is the best thing for you, fwiw, to avoid overwhelming s/e's.

My sensitivity to Zoloft has increased over the years. At one time, I could start it, stop it, and make large dose adjustments to it, without significant s/e's. In recent years, however, I've had more and more s/e's when starting it.

What has most helped me keep titration s/e's to a minimum:

1) making smaller dosage increases.
2) taking more time between dosage increases.

The drawback, of course, is that it takes a good bit longer to reach a therapeutic dose, but getting there later still beats having to give up the drug before you know if it can help.

I wish you strength as you continue this journey. :hug::hug::hug:

waves who needs try to get out now. I will be back later (maybe sooner, if I don't get out).

I am sorry you are hurting so much, Mari
 

Depressed and tired sucks :(:hug::hug:, but the not anxious part is good, and promising. :)

The loss of your friend happened over a period of time and you may have several anniversaries: times that correspond to different events associated with his passing.

How horribly invalidating. :( I am sorry you had these people around you at such a difficult time, and I understand never wanting to see them again. :hug::hug:

Yes. The anger and those people is all rolled up into the pain of losing your friend, and I think holding onto the pain, for now, is a part of honoring your friend's memory somehow. I also think it honors your feelings for him and about him.

I hear your love and admiration for him in your suffering. At some point in the future you might feel the pain less, but still be able to feel the love and admiration. Right now, they seem inextricably bound. I believe that is natural, but I am sorry that you are hurting. :circlelove:

Yes. This was a huge ordeal affecting so many parts of your life. Recovering is going to take time, but some has already happened. Trust that more will happen, gradually.

Here is a beary big hug for you :heartthrob::

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yKySgS1hZi...0/bearhug2.jpg

waves

I am glad that you have your work buddy to talk to. Do you have these kinds of conversations with him?
bizi

Bizi and Waves,


Those two people quit work and moved on with their lives while my work friend was still alive. They sort of left the three of us -- work friend, Work Buddy, and me. I felt abandoned then and now. Anyway, those two people have popped back into my life a couple of times and I do not want anything to do with them. . . . whether that is irrational or not.

A few days ago, Work Buddy spoke about a poem he had written about our friend and posted on his blog a few months ago (and that I had seen of course). I commented on how the two of us have VERY different memories of what kind of person our friend was.
Then the two of us talked a little bit about the structure of the poem and moved on to something else.

I wish my tdoc could have helped me more during that time. She stunk as a tdoc.

M

Right.


Oh Gah.
People who are not depressed can handle these things better I suppose.

M

pdoc
 

Waves,

Yes. I have enough pills at this dose via renewal but I did not pick them up at the pharmacy.
Pdoc forgot about the plan and the fact that I will not have enough pills to titrate.

I am bored with him and the Lamitcal trial.
I am back to work and busy as heck and I am not going to go drive across a county every two weeks to see him while I wait for a drug to start working.
We could do this by phone.

I am exhausted from sleep schedule being especially off right now -- and I cannot afford to mess up work by having sleepy days when I increase the dose.
If pdoc spends even one minute of my appointment asking those same dumb questions about mood (racing thoughts, seeing things, . . . ), I might say something inappropriate enough to end up in the hospital.
I am angry with him I suppose.

I need Klonopin BEFORE my pdoc visit tomorrow/ Tuesday. I will have to calculate the time I take it in order to achieve maximum effectiveness without adversely affecting driving.

Mari

good luck tomorrow at the pdocs appointment and good luck driving on the extra klonipin.
bizi

pdoc
 

I too hope things go well for you tomorrow, Mari.

I really hope the Klonopin helps you keep your cool if things get annoying.

If he starts on the questions that bugged you last time, you could maybe avoid the whole rundown (and talking back to him) by replying to the first question with an overall summary. Eg:

My mood has not changed significantly from last time, other than
-- a decrease in anxiety (specify if just last night or if stable lessening)
-- an isolated day (specify which) of good humor and high productivity.

Ask to do this by phone. No harm in trying.

Hang in there tomorrow. You can be ok. I hope the road conditions are good. I remember that this guy is not exactly next door.

waves

work friend and feelings
 

Yes. It's a triple whammy with depression. Depression brings us down. Loss brings us down. Depression also (in my experience) directly impairs our ability to process emotional events.

Irrational or not, you are still entitled to your feelings and to make choices that suit your feelings.

It is nice that you two can share these things, even if you have such different perspectives on your mutual friend.

I am sorry. Whenever you decide to do therapy again, I hope the person you find works out much better for you.

:hug::hug::hug:

waves

pdoc update
 

Hi,

It is helpful for me to write this.
I am exhausted and have been working on the computer for hours to get ready for tomorrow.
Pdoc asked me his usual stupid questions but went through them less thoroughly -- more quickly and slightly mumbly.
Then he aske me more gnerally how I was and asked me to give a number from 1-10. I told him I did not like number sand did not want to hit him so I told him "6."


He said he wanted to DOUBLE the Lamitcal.
I said no and when he said no I started crying.
I said I am sensitive and all that and what is the rush.

-->> I said if it matters a lot to me and it does not matter that much to you, can't we do it my way?
He relented and I noticed the one resident (male) waking up from his half-nap and furiously scribbling notes for whatever just happened.

I asked when my next appt was (If it was going to be in two fing weeks again I was going to quit and do without meds :mad: :mad:
Thankfully for the sake of everyone who has to deal with me, he said One Month. I said o.k.

Then he carefully checked his script notes and wrote
~~~ the Lamictal
~~~one month's worth of Klonopin (so you can have extra) -- He really said that. I felt comforted a bit because I had not asked him.
======================
I drove home very carefully because I was sleepy and knew that I had no chance of sleep in the near forecast.

======================
When I got home the pharmacy called to say that the drug company would not pay for the two meds. I said that probably the Lamictal was a different strength and that the dr wanted me to have them. She checked again and said that the drug company approved the Lamictal. I said I would pick it up the next day. The stupid girl said that the Klonopin was the same strength and the insurance would not pay.

=============
I will call the pharmacy in a day or so when I am in the mood to deal with them. Maybe I can afford to pay cash -- I don't know.

==============
Hubby has been hyper focused on a stupid issue for the last several days. When he started on this latest reason to be angry I shouted not very nicely and said, "Are we going to have to deal with this every day for the rest of my life?" Then I went into a different room and he cut up some watermelon for both of us.

==============
A beloved secreatry at work died over the weekend. She had been at work on Thursday. I guess some of us are going to the funteral this weekend. I will leave myself the option of 1 not going 2 arriving late 3 leaving early.

==============
I got my work for tomorrow completed but it took forever because I had to keep catching myself from making errors.


==========
I am saving for the a.m the whole washing of self, looking for clothes off the floor to wear, packing lunch, . . .. . The clock is set for 8:35 am. Wednesday is my very long day. I leave work to come home at 7:30/8:00 p.m.

Thank you.
M

as Waves said before, be kind to yourself. I don't know if you know how to be...
i just thought of chocolate chocolate chip ice cream. you need nurturance
but when we don't get it as a child, i think it is almost impossible to do it to ourselves. it sounds as if your pdoc is a real stiff-changing is such a pain and so frustrating...there aren't there many good ones out there but I think you can do better. I don't think you have the emotional energy to try again. I hope your kids are good to you and you have some really neat ones in your classes. that is sort of a refuge...i don't know how you can protect yourself...i for one am not good at visualization to be dressed up in body armor doesn't do it for me.
we care so much about you
bobby

Oh my!
 

Gosh, I'm sorry Mari. :(:hug::hug::hug:

This pdoc sounds so impersonal. :( His always having a resident there seems consistent with that, IMHO. That set bells off in my head to start with, because it would bother me, but it's more than that. Even if it does not bother someone, it is not a situation which fosters much bonding. I am not sure he really "gets" one-on-one bonds. :confused:

Other than that (and a rather big that it is), he sounds very competent clinically. If you can put up with him and if he is amenable to negotiations on the meds, he might be good for the purposes of med management. He still has to really prove himself in this department though.

Thank goodness he relented on the Lamictal. I don't really understand how that went (his saying no), but this is not a request to go into it (unless you want/need to). The whole event sounded like something you wanted to get out... and maybe out of the way more than anything. Anyway, it sounds like he did listen to you and giving the extra Klonopin IMHO indicates he is observant.

----------------------------
I am really sorry to hear about the secretary at work who passed away. :( It sounded sudden. In regard to the funeral, do what you are ok with at that time. Be as ok as you can be. :heartthrob:
----------------------------

I hope hubby gets easier to deal with. The watermelon thing sounded nurturing somehow, though.

You alarm went off 25 mins ago by my clock. Hopefully you got some sleep. I am sending you *good energy* for today, lots and lots of it! :circlelove:

I look forward to hearing from you again later... whenever you are up to it. :hug::hug::hug:

waves

hope things will even out a bit for you, and I can
 

def relate w issues concerning pdoc, meds, therapy, hubs, work, finances, as well as some other health stuff, etc. In fact, getting ready to be good to myself right now before I have to get going or have any demands placed on me, a good walk with my dog Cleo before rain starts, followed by a bit of meditation and prayer. Am now enjoying socializing with some of you all, new friends. Be well!!!! Warm thoughts your way!:hug:

Thank you, Bobby, and Waves, and Anneo,

I changed my alarm to 9:00 because I do not have too much to do to get out of the house. On Monday I overslept and was late for work by a couple of mins -- rushed out of the house by only brushing my teeth and grabbing some clothes.

====
I slept 5 1/2 hours. I could use a lot more sleep but I feel o.k.
I can pace myself better during the day than I did Monday --- by taking it easy I feel more competent.

I leave here at 10:00 / 10:15 so I have time to write.

Regardign the Lamictal: he said we are ready to double from 50 to 100. That felt like too much of a jump. THe side effects of the Lamictal are already hard -- feeling sleepy during the day and brain fogged when I first wake up and I would only try raising the dose on a weekend. I had anticipated going to 75. When he said 100, I freaked out and talked him into 75 so he said 75 one week (starting Tuesday -- last night -- but I will not do that until the weekend).
After our negotiation, I believe he said one week at 75 and three at 100 but I have yet to pick up the script from the pharmacy and see what it says on the bottle.

I am not in a big rush to raise the Lamictal because I am not hopeful that it will do be any good.
I am aware that it only passed drug trials with tricky stats and that it is a crap drug. It would only work for me because I get lucky -- like the Verapami did for me.l.

It felt very difficult to get out of the house and drive to see him. This might sound weird but the neighborhood his office is in -- I cannot stand it. It is ugly -- expensive suburbs -- stores set back from the road --- houses set back farther in gated communities. . . . cars driving very fast (but that could be my experience because I am so sleepy when I go there.)
I did not want to go. My mood was very much down and probably I was agitated. Before the appt I had decided that I do not want to see him anymore if I can figure out how to do it.
I will want until January when I have titrated the Lamictal and when I have 5 months with him.

YEs. I feel that after three visits I should have a little bit of a connection with him.


I do not pay a lot of a attention in the waiting room but part of his practice involves children. Perhaps he deals with parents instead of patients.

He speaks each time about a therapist.
He wants me to bring the list of therapists from my insurance company so we can go over that together.
MY INSURANCE COMPANY DOES MAKE A LIST AVAILABLE !!!!! -- you call them, they find someone for you and you call and make an appointment. That is how I got him. I did not have a list.
And my preference would be not to deal with another someone new -- esp as I had only two therapists in my life that I was ok to be in the same room with and I tried out tons and I mean tons.

M

Lamictal
 

Mari,

I hear how hard this is for you. Reading your post, I get the feeling of a large boulder sitting on you / me-reading, and another one hanging over my head waiting to fall down and smoosh me. :( I think you have a good plan about waiting until January to figure out the pdoc thing.
---------------------------

As for the Lamictal, here is what I would do:-

If after a week at 75mg you are ok with side-effects (you might be), go up to 100mg on a weekend as suggested. If not, stay at 75mg an extra week. Tell him you didn't increase on schedule because you were still having so many side effects it interfered with work. You could even call and leave a message at his office to that effect.

---------------------------
Lamictal is really the next thing in the pecking order, as mood stabilizers go:

Valproate, lithium, and the carbamazepine family of drugs are first-line mood stabilizers. The choice between them depends on the characteristics of mania (euphoric, mixed, presence of rapid cycling). You tolerate none of these. :o It isn't your fault, but we do have to move down the list.

After that, the only "approved" options for mood stabilization are Lamictal and the AP's.

The latter are usually effective for activation, a couple are approved for depression. Most of them, however, have the potential for serious and permanent side effects, and all of them cause heavy sedation.

Lamictal, with its murky indications, is mostly useful for its antidepressant qualities, which is a good thing for you. Its s/e's are generally less significant than with the AP's, also a good thing.

Next down the line, you have off-label drugs including verapamil, gabapentin, topiramate.
-----------------------

So, really, Lamictal is a very reasonable thing to try at this juncture. I understand you are feeling really bad and it is hard to be hopeful in these conditions. I'd like to encourage you, though, if you can manage it, to keep an open mind about the medication.

When we keep our mind open to something, we increase the chances of a positive outcome. I want a positive outcome for you. :)

(((:heartthrob: HUGS :heartthrob:)))

waves

I slept a little
 

Hi,

I got some sleep. :)

I went to bed at 1:30 a.m.and fell asleep.
I awoke at 7:00 a.m.when I heard hubby getting out of bed -- normally I do not notice him.


Mari

Waves,

Your post reminds me that I have to pick up the Lamictal today so I can raise the dose tonight.
I hope that all goes well with the pharmacy.
Mari

Good luck at the pharmacy, Mari!

It's great to hear that you got some sleep! :)

:hug::hug::hug:

waves

I hope that you were able to pick up the lamictal without an incident.
Glad to hear that you got some decent sleep. nOw if that could just happen more often that would be great!
bizi

I need a plan
 

I was sleepy and left work early (4:30 pm traffic).
I decided to drive home directly (no stopping at pharmacy for the Lamictal).
I had to fight hard to stay on the road (My car seemed to turn left towards on coming traffic and a few times I wanted to let the car do just that. If felt like an urge I had to fight -- I wonder if that is a vision-thing while one is impaired --- to turn toward other cars rather than to the right side of the road and hit a building or a ditch or a car going in the same direction (I mostly travel on two lane roads for work commute).

Apparently, I made it home, turned off the car in my parking spot, and fell asleep. I guess I had a nap in my drive way.

I am a mess. My life is a mess.

M

Aww Mari. It just sounds like you where very tired. Get as much rest as you can.

I get tired when I come back from anywhere. It's the medicine,and there is also a (((tired factor))) that occurs with our anxiety problems.

Did anything happen at work,or did you have a bad day? Not getting enough sleep takes it's toll sometimes.

Sometimes sleep comes when it's not a good time to sleep. When I worked at the Supermarket,and my shift was over,sometimes I'd go up to the break room,and lay down,and fall asleep for about a half an hour. I worked allot of 11 to 7:30 shifts. I was taking xanax,and luvox at the time.

You have come this far. You will make it. BF:hug::hug::hug:

Mari

What time do you take your lamictal? And you haven't raised it yet right?

But when did you raise it last time? And have you added anything else.

I would wonder if the lamictal is making you tired. It did Derrick.

And even this dosage would.

Donna:hug::grouphug:

i am so relieved you got home safely. once when i tried a diet pill i had a urge to crash head on to the oncoming cars. Have you had this happen before? I wonder if it had anything to do with the lamictal. should you call your doctor and ask him or will it just stir up worms? I hope you can get some sleep this weekend.
you are precious to us.
bobby

I am sorry about that driving experience, Mari. It sounded frightening.

I think it is likely to have to do with how tired you were. Our balance can be thrown off. The sensation of pulling to one side might have been accurate and it might not have had anything do with choosing oncoming traffic v.s. same-direction or still-object collision. I will say, that if you discerned a purposeful, self destructive feeling in that experience, you should call the pdoc.

Something that happened to me when on high dose Depakote, when I had to add gabapentin for migraines, was that at gabapentin peaks, I'd get groggy, and whne walking I would feel like I was veering to one side. However, when out with my parents once, they said I was not actually veering -- it was just a sensation. I do believe that grogginess and especially med-induced grogginess can cause weird sensations.

I hope you can get the new Lamictal soon. Not sure what you will do about the increase, but it will be OK. If you feel the need to wait a week, do that.

waves