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-   -   Will A Shrinking Brain Cause Me More Depression? (https://www.neurotalk.org/depression/184350-shrinking-brain-cause-depression.html)

MattMVS7 04-13-2013 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mg neck prob (Post 974814)
yes i think it does result in more depression for a temporary period

3 more questions:

1.) Why and how does it result in temporary periods of greater depression?

2.) Now only just in terms of the glucocorticoids over-exciting the neurons responsible for pleasure, which is greater, the loss of pleasure that occurs only due to the glucocorticoids overworking those specific neurons responsible for pleasure, or the combined activity of the brain regions gained during depression in the limbic system--the combined activity gained of the brain regions that are responsible for making you depressed/controlling depressive thoughts (such as the hypothalamus) plus the brain regions that attempt to stop the glucocorticoids and gain back pleasure? I know that this is the same question as before, but it's different this time because before I was asking if the loss of pleasure in general due to depression was greater or less than the combined activity gained by those other brain regions. But this time, I am not asking this question in regards to a loss of pleasure in general due to depression, but I am now asking this question specifically in regards to a loss of pleasure due to depression only from the glucocorticoids overworking those neurons. So which would you assume is greater, the loss of pleasure only due to the glucocorticoids overworking those neurons, or the combined activity gained by those brain regions I mentioned above in the limbic system during depression?

3.) Regarding my 2nd question, are there ever moments where the loss of pleasure only due to the glucocorticoids overworking those neurons exceeds that of the combined activity gained by those brain regions I mentioned during depression?

mg neck prob 04-14-2013 12:43 PM

Its therory --because there are so many neurochemical interactions that all come from stress. Depression is related to external stress and internal neurotransmitter problems in the brain. There is noway to give you a concrete answers to all your questions for two reasons because its all based on theroies and is very complex-- as I stated before. The technology is not there to study the brain activity in all these diffrent types of settings or enviroments a person goes thru with chronic depression.

MattMVS7 04-14-2013 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mg neck prob (Post 975029)
Its therory --because there are so many neurochemical interactions that all come from stress. Depression is related to external stress and internal neurotransmitter problems in the brain. There is noway to give you a concrete answers to all your questions for two reasons because its all based on theroies and is very complex-- as I stated before. The technology is not there to study the brain activity in all these diffrent types of settings or enviroments a person goes thru with chronic depression.

So we don't even know if there are even very brief moments (like a few seconds or more or less) during depression where the loss of pleasure activity due to the glucocorticoids overworking those neurons exceeds that of the combined activity gained by those brain regions? You can't answer this question I just made here in this post just based on knowing how the brain works regardless of the fact that we don't have the technology?

mg neck prob 04-14-2013 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattMVS7 (Post 975033)
So we don't even know if there are even very brief moments (like a few seconds or more or less) during depression where the loss of pleasure activity due to the glucocorticoids overworking those neurons exceeds that of the combined activity gained by those brain regions? You can't answer this question I just made here in this post just based on knowing how the brain works regardless of the fact that we don't have the technology?

I personally can assume even for short periods of times- I think sure there are many things that indicate loss of pleasure activity due to stress--but the 2nd part does it exceed the combined activity gained in those regions-- no i cant even guess at that part. I know that stress is toxic to brain and body-- so its crucial to get it under control for the general improved heath mentally and physcially.

MattMVS7 04-14-2013 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mg neck prob (Post 975036)
I personally can assume even for short periods of times- I think sure there are many things that indicate loss of pleasure activity due to stress--but the 2nd part does it exceed the combined activity gained in those regions-- no i cant even guess at that part. I know that stress is toxic to brain and body-- so its crucial to get it under control for the general improved heath mentally and physcially.

What if I just narrow it down to the brain activity of just one brain region (like the amygdala as that is known to be hyperactive during depression as I showed you in that one video) or even just the hypothalamus instead of the combined activity of all those other brain regions to make it less complicated.

So just based on one brain region (either the amygdala or hypothalamus), it's still impossible to answer as to whether there are brief moments (like a second or more or less) where the amount of activity gained in just one specific brain region in the limbic system during depression (again, like the amygdala or the hypothalamus) is less than the amount of pleasure activity that is lost only due to the glucocorticoids overworking those pleasure neurons? What about when it comes to measuring neurotransmitter levels--does that give us an answer to these questions?

mg neck prob 04-14-2013 02:12 PM

Stress hormones are clearly involved with dep---we go back to CRF extremly important with dep its good for short term bad when chronic. Cortisol is released by the adrenal glands is controlled by 2 stress hormones that come from the hypothalamus it tell the pituitary what to do with the crf--the pitiuatary responds with ACTH --this is how its regulated normally. The problem is when to much stress happens this system shows it stops normal function. There is current research being studied currently with to much stress and the breakdown of this system. i stated all this to show you Matt science cant answers this even when your trying to simplify to a certain region.

MattMVS7 04-14-2013 02:41 PM

So even though science has gained a lot of knowledge about the brain, just based off of what science already knows and methods (such as measuring neurotransmitter levels) and experiments that can be carried out, regardless of the fact that we don't have the technology, science still can't answer the question of whether there can be brief moments where the loss of pleasure activity only due to the glucocorticoids overworking those pleasure neurons can be greater than the combined activity gained of (these specific brain regions) during depression: either one of the regions that make you depressed plus either one of the regions that automatically attempt to gain back pleasure while the glucocorticoids are still overworking those pleasure neurons? Again, you don't have to explain--just a simple "yes, science can answer this," or "no, science can't answer this" is good.

mg neck prob 04-15-2013 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattMVS7 (Post 975054)
So even though science has gained a lot of knowledge about the brain, just based off of what science already knows and methods (such as measuring neurotransmitter levels) and experiments that can be carried out, regardless of the fact that we don't have the technology, science still can't answer the question of whether there can be brief moments where the loss of pleasure activity only due to the glucocorticoids overworking those pleasure neurons can be greater than the combined activity gained of (these specific brain regions) during depression: either one of the regions that make you depressed plus either one of the regions that automatically attempt to gain back pleasure while the glucocorticoids are still overworking those pleasure neurons? Again, you don't have to explain--just a simple "yes, science can answer this," or "no, science can't answer this" is good.

No---science cant answer this

MattMVS7 04-15-2013 10:13 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but when the hypothalamus atrophies during chronic depression, the activity that it gains during chronic depression is soon lost (due to the fact that the hypothalamus is failing--it is losing activity because it is overworking and the activity that it gains is soon lost). And I'm wondering if there are brief moments (1 second or more or less) where this loss of gained activity can be less than the loss of pleasure activity (the loss of pleasure activity being greater) due to the glucocorticoids overworking the pleasure neurons during chronic depression. So are there such moments, or again, science hasn't advanced that far to even answer this question?

mg neck prob 04-15-2013 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattMVS7 (Post 975219)
Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but when the hypothalamus atrophies during chronic depression, the activity that it gains during chronic depression is soon lost (due to the fact that the hypothalamus is failing--it is losing activity because it is overworking and the activity that it gains is soon lost). And I'm wondering if there are brief moments (1 second or more or less) where this loss of gained activity can be less than the loss of pleasure activity (the loss of pleasure activity being greater) due to the glucocorticoids overworking the pleasure neurons. So are there such moments, or again, science hasn't advanced that far to even answer this question?


I get where you been going with this all along--- but science I cant find anything in research that would answer or indicates this ---at this time.


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