Matt ---its the shrinking brain is seen on MRI with people with known depression. This is the part---it was was compared with people with known depression vs people who did not suffer from depression.

The shrinkage may cause more depression without treatment.

Key point is it can be stopped even reversed with treatment.

dear matt
 

I have been reading your posts and there is only one thing I can say that has not been said and this comes from a person that has sufferd from deppresion and other dissorders yes your brain will shrink from some dissorders,but you streesing about it well not help you much all I can say is to exersise your brain and yes my speeling stinks sorry about that.but like any other musale if you don't exersise it it loses mass and I'm sorry but there are no easy answers to these problums even docs.don't know much and what works for one will not always work for all,try not to stress so bad it's not good for you:hug:

Hello Matt
 

I have been following your post, and so hope to help just a little bit. I have depression too, and know that the brain may shrink. But ya know what, I fill that space that may be hurting with other things. The brain has a remarkable ability to use other areas, that are not so effected. Stress about this will make you obsess. Heck as we all get older, the brain does its thing. I fill myself up with books, and that is no joke. I read obsessivly, and it takes my mind to a better place, some adventure, some new idea. I believe this makes up for any deficiency that presents. I am also bi-polar, I refuse to give into it, and seek the help when I need it. Try to change your thinking. By changing your thinking, you are going in a more positive direction. The more you think about negative stuff, the more you worry, and it gets to be a never ending cycle, that magnifies over and over again. This change of thinking is by no means easy. When you find yourself doing this, recognize it for what it is, and force yourself to think about some other subject, and how you might fill in what you believe may be missing. The brain is a really cool organ Matt. Neurons, can go all over the place, and re-route, bypass a trouble. Look at Abby who was shot in Arizona....Her brain is making up for the bullet that hurt hurt hurt her. That kind of determination will give her the recovery she needs and wants.
If you have a hobby, go back to it, try reading, try being social and join some activity. Even the YMCA has things to do, that most anyone can do. It is not expensive and meant for public use. Hit the library, release your worry. We all will be here for you. I get and need the same kinds of reassurance as you do. I run back to NT all the time for help. If I let myself think that my depression was shrinking my brain all the time, well I would just have a peanut left, and ready for some psych ward. I am better than that and so are you. Your brain is fine Matt, fill it with all the good stuff you can. It will improve your mood, and you will feel better about the whole thing. It will OK Matt, trust your brain a bit OK? ginnie:hug::grouphug:

I really am trying my best in life and trying to ignore this thought by focusing on getting better with treatment, but this thought still keeps on bothering me anyway.

This thought is that if you have depression, will the shrinkage of the hippocampus cause you more depression? Since the hippocampus is responsible for the creation of new neurons and sends those neurons off to the feel-good parts of the brain (as well as other areas of the brain) and that too much cortisol kills these newly created neurons in the hippocampus, will that cause more depression?

Or even if you have untreated depression, does the hippocampus even play a role in depression and that even if it were to shrink, that it won't make your depression worse?

Finally, is it debated by many scientists that if you have untreated depression, that a shrinking hippocampus (atrophy of the hippocampus) will even make your untreated depression worse and that if it even plays a role in depression at all (arguments against the hippocampus playing a role in depression)?

Hi Matt
 

I believe our brains can adapt. Depression can be treated, and so can anxiety over it. Keep thinking in a good way and not obsess over what may or may not happen. If my brain got smaller over the depression in my life, right now mine would be the size of a peanut!!!!!! I get help from my doctor, and take some medications for it. To me that is the best answer. Talk to your doctor Matt, and see if you can get some more help. I do care. ginnie:grouphug:

[Matt --I will say I will say this personally I believe that a big part of depression is a stress related disorder.No-- i dont think its 100% proven continued atrophy.


What is known or proves is the hippocampus that atrophy is seen after known major depression.

I also know that CRF is known to be the main culprit in depression. That stress will increase the crf levels that will damge the hipocampus.

so what do we know for sure ????

stress increases the CRF levels--and that will damge the hippocampus.

stress will also decrease the BDNF and that the nerve cells will lose its ability to produce certain chemicals ---and that depression will follow.

Matt there is no solid study known that known to meassure the BDNF in the hippocampus.But---what is known is about the CRF levels and stress--- is known --is there links --btw a smaller hippocampus-- and known depression. Factually even if patients did not feel better for months on meds ---what is proven that antidepressants helped it re-grow hippocampus.

Personally all is really known is ---CRF is bad for your brain --that Bdnf is good for the brain--- taking and comlying to meds are good as well. Benefits of exercise and mentally and physically show benefits too.

Now my 1st question is that I heard that the hippocampus regulates mood (it inhibits the stress response). Are there scientists who argue against this (a debate)?

Now my 2nd question is that in this link it states that atrophy of the hippocampus will cause depression. So is that wrong or debated as well?

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-...depression.htm

In response to your first ? yes--its not clearly esablished but its the two therioes strong indicate it. Problem is people with FIRST known depression doesnt show shrinkage in the hippocapus, so the theory is shrinkage has to happen over time.Then its studies that show treatment stopping and reversing damge in long term or chronic -- depressed people.


In response to your 2nd ?--yes it debated but the strongest belief or theory of studies suggest the shrinage is more likley effect of the depression rather
then the cause.I dont blame u having a hard time wrapping your thought around this like i said from the start-- nothing is clear or written in stone.

But what if you already have depression, is it still strongly believed (theorized) that even if you do have depression, that the shrinkage of the hippocampus during depression isn't likely to cause more depression--it's just a result of the depression?

No but it does show learning and memory deficits --and all the physcial symptoms due to possible cortisol problems i mentioned in previous post.