Will A Shrinking Brain Cause Me More Depression?

MattMVS7 · 02-22-2013, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mg neck prob

While this is an important issue for short-term health, it may also be important for the longer term, because there is some evidence that depression shrinks the brain — no, it is not the psychiatrists who are the "head shrinkers!" — and that antidepressants might put the brakes on this process.

While much remains to be sorted out, one of the key players in this story might be "neurogenesis," or growth of new brain cells.

Just two weeks ago researchers reported in the journal Science that they had devised a method, based on an imaging technique called magnetic resonance spectroscopy, that could detect new cell growth in the brains of living people. This raises the possibility of being able to monitor effects of antidepressant treatment on neurogenesis in patients.

Hitting on the Hippocampus

The hippocampus is a seahorse-shaped region of the brain found on both the left and right sides, buried a few inches in from the ears. It has a critical role in memory and is part of the connected circuit of brain regions called the limbic system that generate and regulate our emotional lives.

The results of more than 20 studies now strongly suggest that the hippocampus is smaller in patients with major depression than in people without illness. The average difference is about 10 percent.

So the hippocampus is smaller in depression. But does a small hippocampus cause depression or does depression shrink your hippocampus? Some evidence suggests shrinkage occurs.

Scientists began pursuing this line of research after Robert Sapolsky, a Stanford neuroscientist, suggested that chronic stress might unleash a cascade of stress hormones, which over time might kill hippocampal cells. There have since been several studies that have shown that hippocampal size in depression correlates with the length of time a person has been depressed.

Another study has shown that hippocampal size correlates with the amount of time a patient has had untreated depression. Consistent with this, the good news is that evidence suggests depression treatments can block the pernicious effects of chronic stress on neurogenesis, reactivating growth of new brain cells.

Two studies have in fact reported that antidepressants can increase hippocampal size.

Matt --so to me this part is the key below --in my oppinion to your questions.

Growing Your Brain

The size of the hippocampus varies from one person to another regardless of depression, much like height and foot size vary. Several studies indicate that genetics determines about half of the size variation in the hippocampus.

so yes depression is assoc with a smaller hippocampus--but delayed treatment shows might be assoc with further shrinage--and the study shows antidepressants have been shown to stop fuether shrinage.

I know that antidepressants help grow new brain cells, it's just that I have questions.

So will just the hippocampus shrink during depression, or the prefrontal cortex, or both?

mg neck prob · 02-22-2013, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

I know that antidepressants help grow new brain cells, it's just that I have questions.

So will just the hippocampus shrink during depression, or the prefrontal cortex, or both?

From what i understand and reall think the hippocampus does but the only evidence suggest less activity in imaging done of the prefrontal cortex not really shrinage would be the term I would use-- less of activity shown in images scanned --which i believe trying to make this little more simple my oppinion --it comes for from a BDNF gene that has been assoc with a smaller hippcamous --that gene belongs to a family of genes that infulence brain growth ---stimulating it will help from getting worse (not only meds other therapy like tms) and stop damage ---this is what im trying to explain there is no simplified answer --u have to understand more of the the genes the stress hormones and all diseases and aging with the brain. Im sorry there is no clear answer Matt im trying the best way I know how to explain. Some is more proven in parts and like i said its not written in stone. But studies showed damage can be prevented to me which would be my main objective.

MattMVS7 · 02-22-2013, 11:18 AM

Now I think one more question I have is that has it been shown that depressed people can have few genes responsible for brain loss (meaning, that even though he/she is very depressed, that he/she isn't going to lose much of his/her brain)?

mg neck prob · 02-22-2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

Now I think one more question I have is that has it been shown that depressed people can have few genes responsible for brain loss (meaning, that even though he/she is very depressed, that he/she isn't going to lose much of his/her brain)?

Thats correct!

MattMVS7 · 02-22-2013, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mg neck prob

Thats correct!

But are there depressed people with none of the GATA1 genes that result in smaller brain mass in the prefrontal cortex? Or are these genes necessary to survive?

mg neck prob · 02-22-2013, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

But are there depressed people with none of these genes? Or are these genes necessary to survive?

No we all have these genes --we must have them for survival.
This is why I say it gets complex---bdnf --gene is found in more than the brain -- however its s secret protein or nerve growth for the brain. Its about increase these level of bdnf---low level indicates in other disease as well ocd,alheimzers,hunnington and dementia ---this is where i indicated before the studies in depression decrease in the bdnf gene to the hippcampus to shrink --hence stress and depression decrease expression of bdnf. taking anit dep meds,exerise,other therapy increase its level of the bdnf level.

MattMVS7 · 02-22-2013, 04:18 PM

Even the GATA1 gene we all have as well (the bad gene that was stated in that article you posted to be responsible for brain loss in the prefrontal cortex)? I'm sorry if it seems I'm asking the same questions, it's just that I have things on my mind with this.

Now it stated in that article that a loss of brain mass in the prefrontal cortex occurs. But you said that there is evidence that just a loss of activity in that area occurs and not a loss of brain mass in that area (shrinkage). Therefore, due to this contradictory information, is it unknown if a loss of brain mass occurs in that area through depression?

Like here it says that this shrinkage is known to occur in depressed people (the 5th paragraph of this article):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...ink-brain.html

But as stated before, you said there is information that contradicts this. And again, leading back to the question of is it unknown whether this shrinkage actually occurs in depressed people. I do have chronic major depressive disorder, and is there information out there that even shows people who have major depression have a normal sized prefrontal cortex or even a bigger one? Again, just wanting to learn in asking these questions.

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