There may be a few cases caused by fluoride but most are probably due to a auto immune response by the body. Many people with fibro have a auto immune disorder or within 10 years will develop a autoimmune disorder.

The problem with some people is that there doctors never look for a autoimmune disorder they just blame all symptoms that someone with fibro has on the fibro.

Some autoimmune disorders can be completely masked by fibro like RA, Sjogren's.

If you have above normal CRP, ANA, SSa SSb or any auto immune type antibodies in your labs you most likely have a autoimmune disorder that caused your fibro.

When autoimmune antibodies attack your body they don't just attack the organs that are specific for that disorder. But may attack the CNS giving you fibro.

In my case the autoimmune disorder was a very rare autoimmune disorder called Castleman's Disease and it was found only becuse the doctor could not find a cause for the bad labs that he was getting instead of just blaming the fibro.

I believe my Castleman's was caused by trichloroethylene and the Castleman's caused the fibro.

AUGOLDMINER,

Thanks for your response. I agree that a messed up immune system is part of the picture for fibromyalgia. I am not satisfied to stop there though. Being able to give a name to the particular way my body/immune system is messed up is only helpful if someone has figured out how to heal that named condition. I want more than a good diagnosis. I want to know why my immune system is messed up the way it is and what I can do to get well.

I also agree that fluoride may not be the single cause of fibromyalgia in many cases. For instance, I believe that my fibromyalgia symptoms are due to Lyme disease. But consider this:

Once in the body, fluoride is a destroyer of human enzymes. Being very highly reactive, fluoride hydrolyzes enzymes, thus changing their shapes. Since enzymes are proteins, once they are changed, they become "foreign-looking" to the immune system. The body then treats them as invaders even though they were originally produced by the body. This is an autoimmune situation, right?

Quoting from the definition of fibromyalgia used for this forum, "Fibromyalgia means pain in the muscles, ligaments, and tendons – the soft fibrous tissues in the body." What do these soft fibrous tissues have in common? The body's connective tissue is composed in large part of collagen. Fluoride prevents new collagen from being properly formed. In fact, fluoride doesn't just cause collagen to be wrongly formed, it causes collagen structures, like ligaments, tendons and, and muscles to be mineralized thus reducing their flexibility and making them crunchy sounding and painful. Fluoride probably causes collagen structures to be weaker as well.

I agree that not all of the pain of fibromyalgia comes from connective tissue. It likely is a central nervous system issue as well. I don't know where fluoride fits into the CNS picture. I just believe that many people who suffer from fibromyalgia would feel better if they avoided fluoride. If people have ingested a lot of fluoride over the years, they will have stored up a lot of fluoride in their bones - so even if they stop ingesting fluoride, it will take a long time before they stop suffering from the effects of fluoride.

You mention fibro possibly masking rheumatoid arthritis. Rheumatoid arthritis is an inflammatory condition right? My understanding is that fibromyalgia does not involve inflammation.

"Dr. Donta presented the symptom lists for chronic Lyme disease, chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), and Gulf War Illness (GWI). He pointed out the similarities between them, and found there were few differences. He has treated hundreds of patients with these illnesses. He found that CFS and GWI have identical symptoms, and FM is only distinguished by a positive tender point exam, that is often positive in CFS and GWI as well. Clinically it is almost impossible to distinguish or differentiate these illnesses."

http://www.canlyme.com/fibrocfslyme.html

Benefits and harms of doxycycline treatment for Gulf War veterans' illnesses: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=15262663

Is it possible that fibromyalgia would have a connection with all of us (who has been diagnosed) by the type of water we drink by the years, the air we share or area which would be semilar everywhere and combined with our work experience and also our way of living.

The only thing I know so fare, that no body knows enough about it, except that we have live with it, talk about it, prove it even if not visible to others, try to reorganize our way of life depending the severity of the pain and the worst I felt so far is to find a doctor who will listen to you and will not tell you it's all in you're head, even if you have been hospitalized for two weeks because you couldn't feel you're toes, fingers, have pain all over so bad the the muscles would only quit on you.

For I believe that the first step is to find a professional who really listen to what you have to say, and from there who knows.........

Kaki,

I'm sorry to hear that your fibromyalgia is so severe.

As I've said in earlier posts, avoiding fluoride is a good thing for fibromyalgia sufferers to do.

You said, "Is it possible that fibromyalgia would have a connection with all of us (who has been diagnosed) by the type of water we drink by the years, the air we share or area which would be semilar everywhere and combined with our work experience and also our way of living."

One thing that many of us have consumed or are consuming is aspartame. Here is a website that discusses the dangers of aspartame:

http://www.dorway.com/indexnew.htm

The other thing, which is true for me, is fibromyalgia symptoms caused by Lyme disease. If you want to know more about Lyme disease, see my thread, "Helpful Information about Lyme Disease" on the Lyme disease forum.

I pray that you will find a professional who can really help you overcome your fibromyalgia.

Has Trevor Marshall identified the common denominator among the "no known cure" diseases of sarcoidosis, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, and chronic Lyme disease, and figured out a way to effect a cure?

"Multiple co-infections of antibiotic-resistant bacteria can act in unison because many of the species have evolved a similar technique for evading the immune system.

These bacteria live in the cytoplasm of phagocyte cells, and directly stimulate a protein called NuclearFactor-kappaB to cause the continuous release of inflammatory chemicals, a Th1 cytokine cascade. This is the source of the inflammation driving the CFS symptoms."

"Tiny 'pleomorphic' bacteria have been photographed living within the cells of the immune system of sarcoidosis patients." Of all the things I have come across so far, I believe that these tiny "pleomorphic" bacteria are the likeliest cause of fibromyalgia in general. I now believe that though fluorides and excitotoxins such as aspartame can produce fibromyalgia symptoms all on their own, in general they are secondary to these tiny "pleomorhic" bacteria (such as possibly mycoplasma fermentans).

The Marshall Protocol for Treating Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia: Hopeful Results Emerging:

http://www.immunesupport.com/library...le.cfm/id/5784

Presumably, the following ideas are not accepted by the government or the medical establishment, but they do make sense to me.

"If you are ill with these diseases [myalgic encephalomyelitis, fibromyalgia, multiple sclerosis or Alzheimer's], your red blood cells will not be normal doughnut-shaped blood cells capable of being compressed and squeezed through the capillaries, but will swell up like cherry-filled doughnuts which cannot be compressed. The blood cells become enlarged and distended because the only way the mycoplasma can exist is by uptaking pre-formed sterols from the host cell. One of the best sources of pre-formed sterols is cholesterol, and cholesterol is what gives your blood cells flexibility. If the cholesterol is taken out by the mycoplasma, the red blood cell swells up and doesn't go through, and the person begins to feel all the aches and pains and all the damage it causes to the brain, the heart, the stomach, the feet and the whole body because blood and oxygen are cut off."

I suspected that ischemia was behind the pain and weakness of fibromyalgia. If true, this would explain how the ischemia of fibromyalgia is caused - ischemia at the capillary level. This would also explain why even very light exercise, on a regular basis is helpful for fibromyalgia. It helps because the movement helps get swollen red blood cells through the capillaries and at least for a time, partially relieving the ischemia.

The most likely cause of many fibromyalgia symptoms is mycoplasma (artificially created or otherwise) causing ischemia possibly compounded by fluoride toxicity. This is what I now believe best explains the cause of fibromyalgia:

http://www.vaclib.org/basic/mycoplasma.htm

Here is a summary of the book, "The Brucellosis Triangle," by Donald and William Scott:

http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/activism/...sis-scott.html

Hello to all,

I have read all the pages here and am impressed by the knowledge! I have had fibromyalgia since the early 1990's. Mainly it causes pain in my neck and shoulders as well as migraine-type headaches. I can actually feel small knobby nodules all around my neck and shoulders which are painful when pressed. A few things have helped and I thought I'd share these -

Magnesium injections (same thing given to women in eclampsia) to relax muscles. The doctor gave these IM. They will cause a sore spot for a week or so on your bum but this method has no gastro upset like when taking magnesium tablets. I have had pain relief for 2-3 months.

Acupuncture. Helps with pain relief for anywhere from 2 weeks to a month.

Massage. Short term - about a week or so - but sure feels good!

Stretching exercises such as mild, gentle yoga will help along with a hot shower or heat pad on the sore areas.

I am interested in the discussions about floride - isn't floride a chemical by-product? I don't have floride in my water now - is there a way to get floride out of the body safely?

My stomach has recently been kicking up a fuss because of all the pain meds I've had to take because of surgery I had last year for an unruptured brain aneurysm. So, now I'm on more chemicals (Nexium and Immodium) - but I'm going gluten-free after reading the article posted here about that.

Thanks for all the great info; I'll keep reading with interest!

Diana

My name is Ron and I have no doubt about ALL the talk on Fluoride Poisoning.

I Started the ONLY Fluoride Poisoning Support Group on the web.


Message 3 at yahoo group FluoridePoisoning

Everything you have ever known or heard about Fluoride is false.
Fluoridated water is the biggest scam ever pulled on the WORLD and is
killing and sickining people everywhere..

I have been sick since 97 My symptoms did not start all at once but
became progressivly worse until the present.

Symptoms:
blurry vision - on and off not continously. got new glasses just
before I went for last MRI reading. Also looked for ICP by looking at
optic disc.

leg pains - hip, shoulder joints - I can't cross my legs - feels like
my joints are coming apart

muscle cramps and charley horses in calfs and arch of feet

mental confusion -short term memory - seems I really have to work at
remembering daily stuff

Headaches ( frontal)_ worse as day goes on

dizziness, like an airpane ride , disconnected , sometimes feels like
I am 3 feet off the ground or I am sitting sideways up on the wall -
no spinning vertigo

Brain fog - I suspect this is what alhzimers must feel like

tinnitus,-
otolaringologist says I have low frequency hearing loss

irritability - lashing out at family for no apparent reason
lack of concentration

can't sleep - up at 3-4 am and can't get back to sleep

Need to lie down in the afternoon - exhausted - feels like I am in a
comotose state - at times I can hear what is happening around me but
I can't respond

Getting fine tremmors in legs & eyelid

Dysphagia - throat feels swollen , hard to swallow at times - THROAT
GOES OPEN AND CLOSED -worse after exercise

cold hands & feet at times - cold all over at times

profuse sweating - sometimes I sweat like a pig for 15 min. after a
shower

No appitite - constant nausea - lots of bread & milk

muscle weakness & myalgic pain moving all the time

Lower back pain and neck pain comes and goes I don't think itis
linked to exercise

hands and heels really hurt at times

electric like shocks in left leg ( thigh, sometimes in feet and toes)
worst ones happen while I am
lying on couch watching TV - doubled over in pain

Fatigue is increadible - last two hours and consider it a good day!

Gums bleed , had periodontal disease

bone loss in jaw,- according to periodontist and dentist

teeth feel loose, USED TO BE ABLE TO WIGGLE THEM WITH MY TONGUE ,

drooling at times

Soft stools all the time -almost diarrhea

Getting pins and needles on chest and back after a hot shower and hot
days and exercise - started after surgery i think

Itching on arms and waist especially after a hot shower but other
times too

Seems like all this happens after I eat!!! things get worse and also
after exercise

chest pain in ribs on right side, then on left side

Heels really hurt as do my "heels " of my hands

longitudal ridges on finger/toe nails

History ( very brief- this is just the tip of the iceburg)

self diagnosed Chiari Malformation - my brains are swelling into my
spinal column - had decompression surgery in 2000 - symptoms
continued and worsened

self diagnosed Heavy metal poisoning - challenge test showed lead
mercury etc. - this was according to a holistic doctor and allopathic
doctors do not recognize these results. Chelated with DMSA - numbers
came down- still sick - then 10 weeks of EDTA IV thearpy - still sick.

Rhum. Doc diagnosis of Fibromyalgia - 6/02

self diagnosed Fluoride Poisoning - may 2002- one night I got sick
after dinner - and a couple of days later I thought back about what I
did different that nite - I drank three glasses of city water at that
meal instead of milk. Fluoride calcium seeks and makes it less toxic.

I did my own blind tests - I can pick out F water EVERY time - my
daughter can tell by my eyes if I have had 3 glasses of water!

I have confronted docs with this - Some look at me like I'm from
outer space, some belittle me, others just laugh.
My neurologist looked at me wide eyed and ordered serum and urine
fluoride tests. He never called me back. I went and got copies 3
weeks later and both were ELEVATED - my blood levels are 10x normal -
he has NOT dx me or schedualed another appmt.
Romhatoligist dx me with fibromyalgia and then I told her about
Fluoride - she doesn't want to see me again!


I found Dr. Myra Preston PHD - of SIBER IMAGING who has a patented
method of dx CFIDS through QEEG. I did before and after tests
dirnking my city water and I think I now have proof that F causes
brain damage in humans and is one of the causes of these "mysterious
syndromes" CFS,FM,GWS, MCS etc.
I scanned the report and will send it to you in another private
email if you wish, as it is 8 pages long.
Please give feed back if you can. I am willing to take this document
to court and start the fight against Fluorodation. I think this could
be the straw that breaks the camels back.



TEST RESULTS FROM DR PRESTON


Mine are unusual as I did two tests because my fluoronated city water
was making me sick. First test after staying away from as much F as
possible for 2+ weeks - second test after drinking my city water for
24 hours.

Highlights:

tested positive for all four variables to be classified as CFIDS
patient on both tests

Impression: RGE's QEEG prior to drinking water was abnormal. The
abnormalities are primarly in the ratios to total brain activation.
the prominence of slow wave activity is recorded in the delta and
theta frequencies. The lack of beta activity alsorepresents an
abnormal finding.

Following the exposure to water, RGE's delta activity increased,
theta activity decreased... Performance on these tests declined
sharply from the pre-to post water drinking... total brain function
declined in the post-water drinking QEEG.

Conclusions: Extremely abnormal QEEG due to the diffuse delta and
theta activity and the lack of brain activation in the beta range in
the frontal and temporal regions. This pattern correlates with the
patients report of severe cognitive loss. Abnormalities such as these
correlate with the limbic system and immune dysfunction, the fatigue,
the cognitive problems. It is important to note that the pre-water
evaluationwas quite abnormal, confirming the chronicity of the
patients illiness. The post-water drinking decline correlates with
the patients history of fluoride poisoning. Exposure to this toxin
exacerbated the neurophysiological disruption. ...

... RGE clearly exhibits diffuse brain dysfunction, which typically
results from a widespread condition such as a metabolic disease
including heavy metal poisoning. This indicates a neurotoxic
poisoning. Fluoride is a neurotoxin that acts on postsynaptic
receptors. This neurotoxic condition correlates with the disrupted
brain physiology and the secondary development od Chronic Fatigue
Immune Dysfinction and Fibromyalgia Syndrome.

I have seen every "oligist" on the planet it seems and the long version of my health problems are on posts/messages 5-10