[momcatjane]

I have experienced severe memory loss from 10 years of Lipitor therapy. When I stopped the Lipitor I regain most of my memory but still have periods of searching for words. I also have pretty severe muscle weakness in my lower extremities. I read a few months ago that acetyl-L-carnitine would help so I have been taking 1000 mg morning and night and have regained pretty much all my memory and feel better...also have less muscle weakness. Do you know of any side effects of this that I should be aware of? I am on blood pressure medicine, antidepressant and generic Klonopin.

[mrsD]

Acetyl carnitine is easy to tolerate.

Here is a good monograph on it, including drug interactions:
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/c...e-l-000291.htm

You are very fortunate to recover functions. New studies coming out now on statin drugs show they damage mitochondria.

[crandreww]

Just a note: I was healthy 32 year old RN, and was on Lipitor for 3 years when I fell terribly ill, and subsequently disabled since 2002. I was hospitalized for 28 days at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. I underwent a brain biopsy revealing holes in my brain, consistent with Autophagic Vacuoles (Neuronal Apoptosis), a muscle biopsy revealing signs consistent with MELAS (Mitochondrial Encephalomypathy with Lactic Acidosis and Stroke-Like Episodes (MELAS), I was like patient with Alzheimers Disease, I did not know who I was, where I was, nor did I know my wife, or 3 year old son.

I wet and soiled myself, I was unable to speak coherently, unable to walk, feed myself, use the bathroom, etc. I was evaluated by nearly every Neurologist, Med Student, and Resident at the hospital. NO ONE COULD CORRELATE MY PROBLEM WITH STATINS. It wasnt until I was evaluated by a visiting professor from Harvard, who suggested I be tried on a Mitochondrial Cocktail (essentially 12 vitamins, amino acids and one KEY substance, CoQ10. After starting this I slowly began to improve to the point I could go home with aggressive rehab therapies, in place of my planned transfer to a nursing home.

With all of the labs, CT, MRI, EEG, etc..nobody could put a finger on a chemical cause, Lipitor. Why? Because physicians are educated by Drug Reps, who are paid very handsomely to sell a drug, minimize the risks, and boast Relative Risk Reductions, versus Absolute Risk Reductions. Shortly after Discharge,with a diagnosis of "viral encephalitis", my wife and I were watching Good Morning America, when Diane Sawyer was interviewing Dr Beatrice Golomb of the UCSD, regarding her Statin Effects Study she was going to be doing.

My wife immediately begged me to enroll, I replied, as a critical care RN,it was my job to know everything there is to know about these drugs, and there is no way my problems were NOT an effect of my use of Lipitor. When the statin study was concluded, I received a phone call from Dr Golomb, who informed me that my case, symptoms, problems were not rare among her study participants, and she referred our cases to one of the top Mitochondrial Experts in the nation, Dr Doug Wallace, from the University of California, Irvine.

And it was his opinion, that my use of Lipitor was the likely causal contributor to the Mitochondrial DNA mutations, as well as the holes (apoptosis) that were seen in my brain biopsy. Some time after this, I received a call from Dr Wallace, to inform me, that we know where my statin use took me, and he assured me that if I were to consider resuming "statin therapy", there is only one way for me to go. I urge anyone and everyone to STOP these poisons. The notion that Cholesterol causes heart disease is based on "checkbook science"..and there is plenty of evidence that absolutely refutes this junk science, I would like to offer to share any or all of the information with anyone interested, message me and I will be sure to share..

[mrsD]

Originally Posted by crandreww

Just a note: I was healthy 32 year old RN, and was on Lipitor for 3 years when I fell terribly ill, and subsequently disabled since 2002. I was hospitalized for 28 days at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. I underwent a brain biopsy revealing holes in my brain, consistent with Autophagic Vacuoles (Neuronal Apoptosis), a muscle biopsy revealing signs consistent with MELAS (Mitochondrial Encephalomypathy with Lactic Acidosis and Stroke-Like Episodes (MELAS), I was like patient with Alzheimers Disease, I did not know who I was, where I was, nor did I know my wife, or 3 year old son.

I wet and soiled myself, I was unable to speak coherently, unable to walk, feed myself, use the bathroom, etc. I was evaluated by nearly every Neurologist, Med Student, and Resident at the hospital. NO ONE COULD CORRELATE MY PROBLEM WITH STATINS. It wasnt until I was evaluated by a visiting professor from Harvard, who suggested I be tried on a Mitochondrial Cocktail (essentially 12 vitamins, amino acids and one KEY substance, CoQ10. After starting this I slowly began to improve to the point I could go home with aggressive rehab therapies, in place of my planned transfer to a nursing home.

With all of the labs, CT, MRI, EEG, etc..nobody could put a finger on a chemical cause, Lipitor. Why? Because physicians are educated by Drug Reps, who are paid very handsomely to sell a drug, minimize the risks, and boast Relative Risk Reductions, versus Absolute Risk Reductions. Shortly after Discharge,with a diagnosis of "viral encephalitis", my wife and I were watching Good Morning America, when Diane Sawyer was interviewing Dr Beatrice Golomb of the UCSD, regarding her Statin Effects Study she was going to be doing.

My wife immediately begged me to enroll, I replied, as a critical care RN,it was my job to know everything there is to know about these drugs, and there is no way my problems were NOT an effect of my use of Lipitor. When the statin study was concluded, I received a phone call from Dr Golomb, who informed me that my case, symptoms, problems were not rare among her study participants, and she referred our cases to one of the top Mitochondrial Experts in the nation, Dr Doug Wallace, from the University of California, Irvine.

And it was his opinion, that my use of Lipitor was the likely causal contributor to the Mitochondrial DNA mutations, as well as the holes (apoptosis) that were seen in my brain biopsy. Some time after this, I received a call from Dr Wallace, to inform me, that we know where my statin use took me, and he assured me that if I were to consider resuming "statin therapy", there is only one way for me to go. I urge anyone and everyone to STOP these poisons. The notion that Cholesterol causes heart disease is based on "checkbook science"..and there is plenty of evidence that absolutely refutes this junk science, I would like to offer to share any or all of the information with anyone interested, message me and I will be sure to share..

That is just a horrific thing to live through! These forums are filled with concerned people who warn of the dangers of statins.

Olsen at PD forum here also posts some very interesting things she finds in her access to research papers in her job.
She and I correspond quite a bit.

Dr. Golomb is wonderful...I often link to her papers on the net.
Did you see our recent statin thread yet on PN?

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...hlight=statins

I have links to new YouTubes, and to photos of damaged nerve cells... on that thread.

Another scientist working on Cholesterol is Dr. Stephanie Seneff.
She has several YouTubes, and a very interesting website:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/

Your experience is so far the most critical and damaging we have had on these forums. But many people on our peripheral neuropathy forum have lingering damage from especially Zocor.
It is very difficult to get anyone to believe that the statins are toxic to cells. I've been trying to open eyes for many years in this regard here. And we do have some successes.

I hope you can stay with us.... to help others see the light.

[LostCause]

As far as BP meds go, ACE inhibitors and calcium channel blockers can also cause memory problems so be aware.

Along with the acetyl-L-carnitine you can add ALA (alpha lipoic acid) and NAC (N-acetyl cysteine) to help memory and cognitive function. DHEA can also sharpen your thinking.

Antidepressants are a hoax - SSRI's SNRI's what a hoot. They've made billions for big Pharma though. Klonipine is addictive if used on a regular basis and there are even rehab places specializing in klonopine addiction, just ask Junior Seau's family (he had CTE from football).

There are natural alternatives for high BP (hawthorne extract, hibiscus extract, 3nB celery seed extract...) as well as for depression (5-HTP [but if you have high BP that's a problem, SAM-e, etc.], and anxiety.

I tried Valerian root for anxiety without success but there is a product called Pharma GABA by Natural Factors which works great for me. Every so often I still need a bit of lorazepam (.25mg) to sleep.

Good luck on your search for answers - use Big Pharma products as a last resort.

[Lewie]

What about using Pyruvate?

Can Mitochondrial damage be tested?

[roadracer]

Originally Posted by LostCause

Antidepressants are a hoax - SSRI's SNRI's what a hoot. They've made billions for big Pharma though. Klonipine is addictive if used on a regular basis and there are even rehab places specializing in klonopine addiction, just ask Junior Seau's family (he had CTE from football).

Your comment is offensive.

First, Klonopin is a anti-seizure med. Do you think seizures and epilepsy is a "hoax"? Seizure meds have saved my life on several occasions, without them I would be dead. Most people who take these meds know they can be addictive and can have very nasty side effects, and many suffer with debilitating side effects, but must continue to take them because the benefit outway the risk for them.
SSRI are also used off-label in the treatment of the condition I have, autonomic dysfunction.

Medications that save peoples lives, yeah, "what a hoot"...

[Dr. Smith]

Clonazepam (Klonopin) is also used in the treatment of Depression.

How Effective Is Clonazepam for Depression?

The medication clonazepam, while originally designed to prevent seizures, was later discovered to have a positive effect on patients experiencing anxiety problems. Further research showed it also was possible to use clonazepam for depression.

I don't know if/that most people who take antiseizure meds know that they can cause dependence, or the range and severity of their side effects—and discontinuation effects. Perhaps epileptics/seizure patients are treated differently(?) , but these meds are now handed out cavalierly to chronic pain, PN, fibromyalgia, and other neuropathic pain patients, with very little (if any) discussion about side effects, dependence, and/or permanent changes in the brain. (Google: antiseizure "if I had known") There are currently several active threads spread across multiple forums on the difficulties people are having with Lyrica (pregabalin), Neurontin (gabapentin), and others. Some are finding they are sentenced to taking these meds for the rest of their lives even though they no longer need them medically or their efficacy has waned.

The efficacy/legitimacy of antidepressants—for depression—has come into question for some time.

Miracle Drug, Poison or Placebo?

Medications saving lives—as in the case of antiseizure meds saving seizure patients—is a wonderful outcome. I don't know how many lives antidepressants may have saved, but there is now concern about how many lives they may be costing/ruining.

That—I inferred—was the "hoax" referred to.

Doc

[roadracer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Smith

I don't know if/that most people who take antiseizure meds know that they can cause dependence, or the range and severity of their side effects—and discontinuation effects. Perhaps epileptics/seizure patients are treated differently(?) ,

Every time I have ever got a medication the pharmacy has given me a sheet with it listing med facts, side effects, black box warnings, etc. Sometimes these sheets use complicated wording I dont understand, but my experience has been that pharmacists are always happy to answer your questions.

but these meds are now handed out cavalierly to chronic pain, PN, fibromyalgia, and other neuropathic pain patients, with very little (if any) discussion about side effects, dependence, and/or permanent changes in the brain.

I am not sure why people are okay with taking meds without reading info on them first. People are always quick to blame the drug companies and doctors. Patients should be making informed decision! I have never had medications forced on me.

[Dr. Smith]

Given the number/percentage of people who don't read contracts, warranties, & other kinds of documentation, it shouldn't be surprising that they don't read prescription inserts either. Folks on support groups/sites like this are IME (to paraphrase an emminent Yogi), "Savvier than the average bear," yet we still get a buttload of questions about prescription meds—many whose answers can readily be found on those inserts, via goggle, etc.

Inserts only include information the pharmaceutical companies want, or are required (by an FDA that is heavily lobbied/influenced by those same pharmaceutical companies) to include. Some pertinent information (like the magnitude of dependence issues) is not necessarily known or divulged until years later (we seem to be amidst that process now), and inadequacies in the reporting system have further obfuscated matters.

I think most people trust their physicians' medical opinions, judgment, and decisions—as they should be able to—that's largely what we hire/go to them for. Medicine is a diverse and complicated field, and the doctor-patient relationship is based largely on trust & confidence.

I'm not suggesting blind acquiescence/obeyence, though that's what many people do, just as they blindly trust/acquiesce to gub'mint, clergy, etc.

Things are changing—due in no small part IMO to the advent of the internet. Information is available that just a generation ago was hidden away in medical libraries.

It's fortunate that you've never had medications "forced" on you. There are, of course, different levels/degrees of "force". Before Lyrica (pregabalin) went generic, it was common for insurance companies to deny it outright, or insist that patients try gabapentin (an older, cheaper, and in some cases less effective medication) first. That's still true when doctors could be prescribing newer, better meds, but insurance companies won't pay for them, and patients must make do with older (and sometimes less efficacious) meds. I have an older male friend with low T (so low as to pose medical complications/risks). His insurance will pay for some types of testosterone prescriptions, but not the one(s) that are most efficaceous. Another kind of "force" exists in the treatment of pain, with opioid vs. non-opioid medications (that's a very complex issue—one that has given rise to its own term: politics of pain). In my own case, in order to get the migraine abortive that works for me, my insurance required that I take a migraine prophylactic (that doesn't work) or they wouldn't pay for the abortive.

I don't know if you consider those examples to be "force", but IMO they aren't based on good medicine, nor in the patients' best interest.

Assigning blame is, IMO, cultural. Getting into that would be a whole 'nother ball-o-worms. In my own personal life, I try to follow the Japanese business proverb, "Fix the problem—not the blame." However, IME, when there is blame, it usually follows the money.

Doc