One thing that is sometimes overlooked, is that things like antacids can reduce stomach acid so much that B12 and magnesium can no longer be obtained from food containing them.

Thus, people who use a lot of antacids could stop using so many and begin to absorb nutrients and minerals better.

People with pernicious anemia cannot control the intrinsic factor in a similar way.

I think it is interesting that without sufficient stomach acid the incidence of h.pylori increases, as well as other bacteria (according to the homeless doctor I saw after my home was foreclosed) that damage stomach parietal cells and inhibit the production of stomach acid.

I read recently that taking a Betaine Hydrochloric Acid tablet with meals actually decreases the incidence of h.pylori. But not everone can safely take these tablets or capsules.

Vitamin B12 is SO essential. (Bad English, I know. Something is either essential, or it is not.) It's just that I want to emphasize how much it is needed. So many people that I've told about it over the years don't begin taking it even though they have several symptoms of B12 deficiency. Then suddenly their doctor puts them on B12 shots and they report to me how much better they are feeling, as if this was the first time that was possible.

We give away so much of our power when we refuse to take seriously what we know about ourselves. If something is true about us, about our health, then why don't we act on that truth rather than waiting for someone in authority to decree, as it were, that yes, it's true.

I can see that we as a society want prescription drugs carefully prescribed. I can see that we must rely on our doctors in relation to prescription drugs. But even with reliance on doctors for prescription drugs, so many people die each year from those prescription drugs.

I just wish that people who can see they have symptoms of low B12, would begin using the Methylcobalamin lozenges, or hydroxy, or even the cyanocobalamin if that is all they can get. I wish people would keep track of their symptoms, and if their symptoms decrease after they start replacing B12, then I wish they would recognize that the B12 was and probably will remain something they need.

If I sound crabby, it's because I still haven't had enough rest. And, the stress is unrelenting. Maybe I'm a little better at handling it. a little.

Often people take antacids when in actuality they don't have enough acid. And many people lose stomach acid even though they haven't taken anything.

Low stomach acid becomes very common as people age. So a person should not assume that if they stop taking antacids they can then absorb B12.

People with pernicious anemia are losing or have lost the ability to produce intrinsic factor. It's not a matter of handling it. It is going, going, gone.

Stomach acid is protective as well as important for absorption of nutrients.

rose

I don't understand what you mean about handling intrinsic factor. ? ? ?

Thanks for replying again.
I am taking 1 x day multi B

I did NOT begin self using B12 until after I had the blood draw so what is reflected in the test results was ACCURATE for that point in time.

What is interesting .... a slightly off topic, but highly appropriate me thinks:

I am prescribed 5mg Folic Acid by my GP 1 x daily
This was suggested to the GP by the hospital dietician as a possible means to lower my homocystein (which by the way was never measured UNTILL I asked for it last week) but it was posited that if my cholesterol was high... which it is according to docs here (thats another topic all together) then high cholesterol = high homocystein because of inflammation.......

The point being they have never really checked my folate levels properly recently, so I have stopped the 5mg tablets and will ask for a test for folate before I go back onto them.

Will write more soon

Cheer's from Clare in Tassie

I contacted someone in the health / body building industry who has told me that vetinary B12 (horses etc) is safe for humans to use. I was looking for a supply / bottle that held more than one dose. I am going to look into this...... may not need it as I now have the sublinguals, but tiz good to know and I do enjoy research.


Regarding stomach acid

I have tried stopping the somac
I have tried drinking Braggs Vinegar to increase stomach acid naturally - thus assisting digestion.

BOTH of these made me VERY ILL

I cannot get off the pills much as I have tried.

Currently most evenings I find I am back to needing to drink a small glass of bicarbonate of soda (in water) to get myself comfortable to go to sleep, otherwise I have stomach acid seemingly rising into my esophagus. Arghhhh another thing to discuss with the GP - one of these days!

Cheer's again Clare in Tassie

Hi Clare,

That's interesting. (All of it, I mean.)

It's good you're taking a multi B. Is that sort of what we call a Mega B? I mean, it's all B vitamins, and not a variety of different vitamins?

I wonder if it would make a difference it you took more than one of those a day.

Before I had the regular shots, I misunderstood and thought I could raise my B12 level by taking Mega B vitamins. So I was taking a lot of them with a huge amount of liquid. I didn't have the highest dosage ones, because I wanted to take them often with a lot of liquid. What came of that was that it got rid of my allergies. Completely. It did not raise my B12 level one single point.

Okay, so I mention that because that's what I did before I started with the B12 shots. So that may have changed how the shots were accepted by my body.

Even now I take 3 to 4 Jarrow B-Rights a day because I don't want to have allergies again. So that may be why it works for me to have so much B12, in nearly daily shots.

Did you stop taking the Folic acid because you suspected it was causing some of the problem? I just checked my B-Right formula, and it has 400 mcg of Folic acid... so even taking 4 a day I'm getting 1.6 mg, which is not as much as you.

Are you feeling better than you were? I was really worried about you from your first post.

Well, that's the most startling thing I've read!

about the B12 for horses.

I would be very careful about where it was made, though... I wouldn't want to see that it was made in China...

As much as I use, I would be hesitant. You totally blew me away with that.



Re vinegar. I used to drink a tea of it quite frequently when I had a horrid cough. It worked great, but I did get sort of valley depressions running from side to side in my nails, especially my thumb nails. I had that kind of thing again (on my nails) when I was living in the hydrogen sulfide, so I would guess that maybe a lot of vinegar isn't that good for us, or at least some people.

Have you thought about ordering (or buying locally) the hydrochloric acid tablets? They are not all right for all people to take. I forget who is especially warned away from them.

I've been taking extra vitamin C and I think it may work somewhat the same way as hydrochloric acid. (I don't know that. I'm just mentioning it to you.)

What I do know, is that when I get that acid feeling at night, I take a hydrochloric acid tablet. Strange, I know, but I read somewhere that sometimes it's a lack of acid that causes the problem, and it has always helped for me.

If you are thinking of taking hydrochloric acid just be sure to read the warnings, in case you are one of the people who shouldn't take it.

I am not going to dash out and buy horsey B12.... but it is sure worth investigating. Think of the amount of money that top trainers and owners spend on their horses.... the B12 is not going to be of a cheap quality surely????

I found the following on the www which maybe of some benefit to anoyone trying to understand about B12.... tiz a government paper (errr......... ) well tiz a place to start from

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/vitaminb12.asp

Table of Contents
What is vitamin B12?
What foods provide vitamin B12?
What is the recommended dietary intake for vitamin B12?
When is a deficiency of vitamin B12 likely to occur?
Do pregnant and/or lactating women need extra Vitamin B12?
Who else may need a vitamin B12 supplement to prevent a deficiency?
Drug : Nutrient Interactions
Caution: Folic Acid and vitamin B12 deficiency
What is the relationship between vitamin B12 homocysteine, and cardiovascular disease?
Do healthy young adults need a vitamin B12 supplement?
What is the health risk of too much vitamin B12?
Selecting a healthful diet
References
Reviewers




Later Clare in Tassie

PS..... any idea if taking B12 (while your body is deficient) can put you Blood pressure up?

I came across the following whilst reading up on B12 and gastric problems.
It maybe of interest to some.

(from)

http://doctorrw.blogspot.com/2005/09...ical-myth.html

Another nail in the coffin of a medical myth Tradition has it that parenteral therapy is necessary to treat vitamin B-12 malabsorption. In recent years accumulating evidence has suggested the effectiveness of oral treatment. Much of the evidence has been in the form of case control and case series studies. This was the subject of a recent Cochrane review which found two RCTs of oral versus parenteral vitamin replacement, totaling 108 participants. 1000 to 2000 mcg of oral B-12 daily was found equal to a standard parenteral regimen.

Two recent narrative reviews of vitamin B-12 deficiency are linked here. [1] [2] They explain the physiologic rationale for oral replacement and highlight the only recently appreciated and most common cause of B-12 deficiency, known as food-cobalamin malabsorption syndrome. Now believed to be more common than classic pernicious anemia, food-cobalamin malabsorption syndrome is largely a disorder of the elderly. As explained in these reviews a common form of age related gastric atrophy results in deficient secretion of acid and pepsin, which are necessary to strip cobalamin from food protein. Patients with this common disorder can absorb B-12 from pills, but not food. Such patients have a normal Schilling’s test. The disorder is poorly understood, and some cases may be the result of longstanding H. pylori infection.

Food-cobalamin malabsorption is to be distinguished from classic pernicious anemia, an autoimmune disease characterized by antibodies to parietal cells and intrinsic factor. The effectiveness of oral B-12 replacement in such patients is less well understood, but apparently there is an alternate pathway of absorption which is independent of intrinsic factor. The absorptive mechanism is simple diffusion and requires a high concentration gradient, which is provided by the large daily oral doses of 1000-2000 mcg used in the studies.

As suggested in the Cochrane review this evidence, if put into widespread practice, could ease a substantial burden on health care resources. (The clinical effects may be more modest in those patients who derive substantial placebo effect from B-12 shots---anecdotal observation).

A few caveats:
1) The number of patients studied is small. The number with classic PA is smaller still.
2) The effective oral dose is high---1000 to 2000mcg daily.
3) Parenteral therapy has stood the test of time and may be preferable in patients with questionable compliance.
4) If oral treatment is elected the patient should be followed carefully in the short and long term for resolution of neurologic, hematologic and metabolic abnormalities including monitoring of the hemogram, reticulocyte response, homocysteine and methylmalonic acid levels.


NOTE FROM CLARE:

There are several comments posted, flowing from this 'blog' you will be able to read them if you go to the blog site.

I have been reading this thread with interest!

You see, I had Gastric Bypass surgery over three years ago. This surgery intentionally causes malabsorbtion, so I have to take supplements. The ones I cannot do without are: Calcium (has to be Citrate), Iron, and B-12. I am currently taking one 1000mcg losenge daily. I would much rather take the shot, but since I am insuranceless, the docs I go to refuse to prescribe it for me... even though they *know* I have had the surgery and need B-12. It's frustrating.

As for the B-12, the reason it is so essential for me to take it is because B-12 is processed at the bottom of the stomach (as it passes by a particular gland, I believe). Since I no longer use that portion of my stomach, I have no way to process B-12 unless it is sublingual or by shot. I just would prefer the shot because I am so bad at remembering to take my medicines.