[dllfo]

I think I asked this question before...but I can't remember, so here goes:

Have you ever heard of someone walking normally, then their knee gives out and they fall?

OR, in a restaurant last week my right hip gave out and fell against a wall. Luckily I was using my forearm crutch and it saved me from falling hard.

I was walking down some stairs and my left foot gave out, it quit, would not accept any weight on it. I fell the rest of the way and hurt my ankle.

So hips, knees, ankles and feet are unreliable. I am using my power chair a lot now.

My body does not warn me about this new thing. I just fall.

I will be in pain and unable to use that foot, ankle, knee or hip for as much as 30 minutes. THEN I am mostly normal. Xrays are negative. I have some arthritis, but the doctor says what is happening to me is not arthritis. He is setting up more tests.

Brainstorm with me. Guess. We have tried the usual stuff with no luck, so tell me my ancestor was "Big Foot" and I have a genetic predisposition to fall down. That is more than my doctors have figured out.

Bottom line, I can't trust my lower limbs any more. No repetition, that is, it might be my right foot giving out, then 6 hours later my left knee or hip. Way too weird. I am really hoping one of you has heard of something like this. I would not wish it on anyone, but if another person has this problem, I would love to discuss their findings. Thanks...

[Jaspar]

Originally Posted by dllfo

I will be in pain and unable to use that foot, ankle, knee or hip for as much as 30 minutes. THEN I am mostly normal. Xrays are negative.

Brainstorm with me. Guess. We have tried the usual stuff with no luck, so tell me my ancestor was "Big Foot" and I have a genetic predisposition to fall down. That is more than my doctors have figured out.

So it happens with severe pain? And it is intermittent. I know this can happen in knees from a small tear in the miniscus where sometimes the flap floats up and is excrutiating to try to put any weight on it, then on its own it floats back into place within 20 minutes or so and the person feels fine again. X-rays would not show this.

Perhaps something similar happens in other joints?

Another though is that there is intermittent pressure on some nerves from the neck or other area of the spine. Again, nothing might show up on X-ray, but might on MRI IF the right place is looked at. Perhaps seeing an O.D. trained in osteopathic manipulation might help.

I presume you've already had MRI with contrast to check for MS?

And vitamin B levels checked?

[dllfo]

Hi Jaspar, first, let me thank you for the info. And yes, they spent about 75 minutes doing an MRI on my brain, looking for lesions and something else. Our oldest daughter was diagnosed with MS about 5 years ago. But they did not find anything. I can't remember if they used contrast or not.

MRI on my chest area ... I have a Multi-Fenestrated Septal Occluder in my heart and they are concerned about doing an MRI in that area. But it seems the MRI of my brain would have caused a problem for me.... if a problem exists.

My knees, the pain is in the area of the MCL, as far as I can tell. I am seeing the Ortho around June 5th or so. His speciality is knee and hip replacement. I don't know if it could be the miniscus, but I will ask him. Severe pain you ask? It is severe enough that I can't put weight on it. And it goes away (usually) within about thirty minutes.

The Rheumatologist found arthritis in many of my joints, so that is probably part of it.

My feet, it seems like I feel something like electrical shocks before I fall. If I am lucky, I am close enough to a wall that I can lift the "bad" foot and lean on the wall, or use the Forearm Crutch to get to a chair. I think the most disconcerting thing about all of this is that there is NO warning. You and I could be walking down the street and one of my body parts decides not to accept weight. No warning.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it might be nerves from my neck or lower spine. I have inoperable lower back damage and a disc up between my shoulder blades that caused problems with my carpal tunnel.

Yes, Vitamin B is well covered. mrsD set me up with a good regimen.

Thanks again, I am certainly open to suggestions, Take care....

[pabb]

as fast as things change, i would ask every year or so, if your back is still "inoperable"....and make sure that your docs know of this issue, that may change their minds, spine surgery should be done for neuro loss, not so muc for pain...

[dllfo]

For Neuro loss?? No one ever mentioned that --- that I can remember. I asked my "Corporate Memory" and she says no. BUT I WILL TOMORROW!!! We see the Neurologist tomorrow, she will go with me. Otherwise I will forget to ask all of her questions. I write things down, then forget to get the paper out.

We are seeing him about my lower extremities not working right. It has to be nerves.

What else could cause all this mischief? My legs work fine all day, then my foot gets hot shooting pains through it and fails me. Same with my hip or knee. Weird.

[Cooze]

Hi dilfo

This may sound too simple and maybe you have investigated this before, but could there be a chance you have a connective tissue disorder such as Hypermobility Syndrome??

I have a rare CTD called Loeys-Dietz and my knees dislocate causing me to collapse in a heap! Its sore after again for about 30 minutes but then Im fine. Ive got used to it now and thankfully it doesnt happen that regularly as I watch where I step and hold onto banisters going down stairs. Basically what I understand is the problem is the ligaments holding my knees in place has stretched and can no longer hold them steady. I hardly dance, run or act the maggot any more as they are likely to go out from under me!!!

Do you have flat feet? Do you wear orthotics?

Check out the hypermobility dot org website and see if anything there helps.

Let us know how you get on with your doc.

Regards
Rachel

[dllfo]

Rachel, I have never heard of "Loeys-Dietz", but I will look it up. I just saw my Neurologist. They worked me in on short notice, so he did not have a "normal" length of time to go through everything. He ordered some tests ... asked me why my Primary Care
Physician sent me to see a Neurologist when the PCP can order the same tests. I told him my PCP probably was not familiar with the symptoms, but who knows. My Neurologist and
Rheumatologist are thinking I am presenting symptoms from multiple diseases. Maybe my
knee problem is like yours, but my foot/ankle problem is another "disease" while my hip problem is a third disease. THAT is a scary thought.

Answering your other questions: I do not have flat feet, I have high arches. I don't wear medial "orthotics" but I do wear an over the counter arch support.

I will go to the hypermobility dot org website today. Thank you. People like those on these forums can be of great help. I sure learn a lot from you.

I have even considered summarizing all of my medical problems and sending them to the TV show "House". Let him figure ME out. Most doctors seeing me for the first time say something like, "Wow, you are a mess." Then I laugh and tell them it could be a lot worse. The doctor says "How?" and I tell him I could be married to his sister and he would have to see me all the time. They usually laugh, then get busy. I am seeing nine specialists at this time. (I had to look at my list and I was right, it is only nine right now, I detoxed off the morphine/opiates and dropped one doctor)

pabb, I asked my Neurologist about surgery for nerve damage, as opposed to spine damage and he said he would call me on it. This doctor makes phone calls up to about 9pm at night. My wife reminded me that the group of doctors who declared me 100% disabled originally said it was a combination of problems that made the surgery so difficult. Tissue damage, skeletal damage and nerve damage and .... too much damage for now.

I am still lucky. I have a supportive wife and family as well as this forum, thanks to all of you for your suggestions.

[Dmom3005]

Okay, I have pain in all the area's you are talking about.

But so far haven't fallen because of it. I am seeing a foot doctor
for my feet, and he has sent me to a Physical Therapist for my
feet and legs.

I personally would ask if maybe you could go see a physical Therapist
to work on strengthing your muscles for one thing. Also I would
suggest that you might want to talk to a neurologist who specializes
in balance issues.

I had one send me to physical therapy also it has helped my balance
and falling problems a lot. Of course mine wasn't so much that my
muscles gave out. Or as far as I know.

Donna

[dllfo]

Dmom3005,

Hi Donna, first, let me say I am sorry you are having similar pain. And I am glad you are not falling down. Hope you never do.

I have seen a Podiatrist, they offered surgery for something or other. I am hoping to avoid that. But time will tell.

Physical Therapy? It is scheduled, but my muscles seem to be ok...more or less. I agree with you in that my first thought was that my muscles were too weak to hold the "bone structure" in place. But tests of my strength several months ago seemed to offer a different view. My muscles may be stronger than my skeletal system can handle.

I saw a Neurologist last week, he scheduled me back in for a 40 minute appointment to test me.

My balance is good. The reason I fall is that, at least part of the time, my feet/ankles/hips will not accept my weight for some reason. There is no warning, no advance notice, no tingling, no "shock" or anything. I can be walking just fine and when my foot moves out ahead of me, like it has a billion times before, it malfunctions. Frustrating.

But I am getting some good ideas.... thanks for your suggestions, you were right about several things, but Medicare moves slow. Thanks again....Dave

[seekfind]

I fell three times last summer. Like you I had no warning when it happened.

It felt as if maybe my knee gave out or that for some reason my legs couldn't support my body (but still they didn't feel weak) or maybe the sidewalk was uneven and my feet couldn't feel the subtle change to compensate for it (?).

And besides the falls, I also had some coordination problems a few times mainly while standing in place (knee wobbling but a neurological feeling/shaking rather than a feeling of weakness).

I went to a Neurologist and found out it's from Lyme disease.