I need to ask a question about Prednisone after reading some things online about this drug I'm not sure I want to take another dose that is due this evening. It would be my third dose that has been prescribed for swelling that I am experiencing in my hands when I fall asleep at night. As soon as I fall asleep my hands begin to swell and when I awaken in the morning or even during the night I cannot bend my fingers. This has all begun after having used a hammer to put up a fence around my patio area to make it secure for my dog so that she could go out to enjoy fresh air. I need to say that I have a serious issue with my neck, buldging discs in C 5 - C 7 as a result of an accident that occurred on the freeway in the early summer of 2002. I've had a few MRI's to confirm the diagnosis and recently had a bone scan of my spine. My hands become very painful and I don't know if it's from the swelling or if it's from arthritis. My elbows also become swollen and sore at night too but I'm thinking the two are connected for obvious reasons. I'm not sure why my knees are bothering me at night other than the fact that I have a total knee replacement and arthritis in them. I don't think there's any other cause besides the fact that I walk my dog five times daily, to me that's just great exercise for arthritic joints!
My biggest question is if I'm only taking a low dose of Prednisone for five days to reduce this swelling (hopefully) and I'm not having any success with it so far, would there be any problem if I did not continue taking it? I see posts online about tapering doses but I think it's for patients that are long term users. Can someone please respond to my post as soon as possible so that I know what to do? It would be so greatly appreciated!

Hello,

I had some thoughts on some of your symptoms.

You mentioned a car accident and your hands and elbows swelling, and neck injury at c5-c7.

I assume the accident caused some upper body injuries as well as maybe some soft tissue injuries.

I'm wondering if the swelling in the arms and hands might be due to some vascular issues /compressions at the brachial plexus? {collar bone, top rib, scalene neck muscles}

We have a Thoracic Outlet Syndrome forum that includes this type of vascular problem. You may want to read to see if anything more sounds like it may apply for you. Car accidents/whiplash etc can be a factor in the cause of TOS.

our TOS forum link and link to the useful sticky info thread -
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum24.html
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread84.html

[QUOTE=Jo*mar;508557]Hello,

I had some thoughts on some of your symptoms.

You mentioned a car accident and your hands and elbows swelling, and neck injury at c5-c7.

I assume the accident caused some upper body injuries as well as maybe some soft tissue injuries.

I'm wondering if the swelling in the arms and hands might be due to some vascular issues /compressions at the brachial plexus? {collar bone, top rib, scalene neck muscles}

We have a Thoracic Outlet Syndrome forum that includes this type of vascular problem. You may want to read to see if anything more sounds like it may apply for you. Car accidents/whiplash etc can be a factor in the cause of TOS.


I have read a few things including the other forums that you provided the links to, thank you for the links. I did suffer a significant whiplash and the ER Physician gave me some medications for pain and also muscle relaxants because during the accident we hit a guard rail three or four times, spun in between 360 degrees and the final time that we hit the guard rail the trunk was hit, the other times the front of the car was hit at approx. 75 mph. When we hit on the trunk, the car went airborne and came back down to the pavement. It never left the ground on the rear of the car, only the front. We hit hard enough though that the witnesses said that the car had no other place to go but up because it hit against the guard rail again. This accident took place in the center divider of the freeway and we never hit another car but we had head, neck, and chest injuries. We also both had shoulder injuries from hitting the doors as the car was spinning. The airbags deployed so we got chest injuries from the airbags, but thank God for the airbags! I had marks on my chest for three years from the imprint of the airbag where it hit on my chest when it exploded. We both also had bumps on our heads that are unexplained but we think that we bumped our heads together when the car was spinning so many times. My daughter told me that she looked over at one point and my eyes were closed and she wasn't sure if I was closing them because I was afraid or I got knocked out because I didn't answer her when she called for me. My seat got flattened during the accident, I think from the force of the accident and the airbag combined.
We're both just very blessed to be alive and I thank God that we're here. If I have TOS I can at least bring this to my Neuro and ask him if he thinks this is a possibility. I am under the care of a Neuro and he's also my pain management. He just performed nerve conduction testing on me again and said that he thinks the pain is coming from my neck but he isn't sure what is causing the swelling. I haven't gotten an answer from him yet and I keep pressing for one. My Family Practitioner is the one who put me on the Prednisone because I couldn't get a response from my Neuro and I have been losing so much sleep. I sought help from her in the meantime because it became unbearable.

Hi, Nan....

I often wonder about symptoms that only appear at certain times.

Is this swelling only at night? Do you take Neurontin or Lyrica?
These two drugs cause peripheral edema. So do opiates in some people.

Do you have pain with it? Discoloration?

If you have inflammation in the neck, the Prednisone may help.
But...prednisone won't work on edema. In fact one side effect of prednisone IS EDEMA! But this typically takes time, and may not be visible short term.

One thing you can try is to apply locally drugs to the problem area. Flector patches RX or OTC Salonpas, may help and may show you with some improvement, exactly where the problem lies. If you suspect a neck problem, apply the patch on the back of the neck and see if you have improvements.

Carpal tunnel often gets worse at night, and hands may swell.
Wearing the wrist brace at night may tell you something too.

It is easy to focus on a terrible trauma like you had. But there may be other ways to deal with your symptoms. Thinking outside the box may help. If you suspect carpal tunnel, try using Salonpas on the wrist..it may take down inflammation there quickly for you (it does for me). Apply the patch over the inside of the wrist to 1/2 goes up and 1/2 goes down, that is on the thumb side.

Consider TOS when all the symptoms add up to that. I'd keep a journal for a while to record when your hand swells. That may tell you something. (some people get swelling when using MSG or other food additives that they are intolerant of, and also when having alcohol).

Hello Again
I do not take either of those drugs. The reason being is because of the side effects, I do not take a lot of medications because of side effects. One side effect is weight gain and I have to be especially vigilant with this on every medication I take because of my thyroid. I take Levothyroxine 62.5 every day to keep it under control and my weight is finally manageable and I want to keep it that way. I lost over 50 lbs. last year once I was on the proper dosage so to take lyrica would be a nightmare for me.
I have gone outside the box but the box is what got me in this whole situation to begin with. The other big problem was that when I had the latest CT scan on my spine, when the table was being lowered my hair (waist length) became entangled in the mechanism that lowers the table and it began ripping my hair from my head. I ended up with a patch on my head over the size of a silver dollar that was bald for over three or four months. I suffered for all that time with tenderness, headaches, sensitivity to the cold outside and trauma from the ordeal. They had to cut my hair to free me because when they tried to back my hair out, it took it in even more. I went in the end of March to trim my hair to try and make it more healthy on the ends and I got it layered so that I could overcome the varying lengths that I was left with. My Neuro is aware of all of what has happened.
I will be seeing him at the end of the month for Botox injections for migraines to alleviate the pain of those, Topamax works to a degree but not completely. When I so much as get a tension headache from stress, it escalates into a full blown migraine within hours. He said that it's due to the problems with my neck. I do not understand if I have so many issues because of the bulging discs why he doesn't just let me take care of them. LOOK WHERE I AM NOW! I have this new problem that he cannot figure out and I'm coming here for answers.
The Solanpas patches sound like a plan but I use Lidoderm patches so I don't know if they are similar and would be much more helpful or not. I put them over the area of my neck where I need them and I also use a TENS unit when I cannot get enough relief. I have a shower massage and will stand under it for a half hour if I need to. I did stir up my carpal tunnel (I do have a wrist splint but I haven't tried it because I feel so restricted with it even at night it bothers me and I end up throwing it on the floor) and I am now dealing with a ring finger that is a trigger finger, along with my pinky. My Family Practictioner was supposed to see me last time I went in but I got put on the PA's schedule and it totally irritated me because now I have to go back to the clinic to see her and hopefully get the referral to the surgeon that I was hoping for in the first place. Maybe he will have the answers for the swelling hands. My hands turn red on my palms but I wonder if it's from the swelling itself or if this is something else? I do not have Lupus I was tested for this as well as RA when I saw a Rhuematologist this past Fall. He did hand xrays and extensive blood work on me, panels. This is what has led my Neuro to come to the conclusions that it's all related to my flipping neck AGAIN! FLUSTERED and aggravated that two months after this all started I'm still waiting for a diagnosis.

headaches, ring and pinkie finger troubles- more possible TOS sx.
Not many drs are fully knowledgeable about TOS and may pooh pooh your questions about the possibility of it. So don't be surprised if they do that...

I would ask for a referral to a very advanced/ highly rated PT place and ask for them to do thorough evaluation for you.
They know how to do movement tests to find where your sx are coming from.
Sometimes it is worth mentioning TOS to them just to see what they say about it, might make them more aware of the possibles too...

I had the best luck with a very good chiropractor and some advanced physical therapists.
My RSI/TOS was caused by yrs of repetitive work as well as factors of hyper mobility, a minor car accident and concussion from a horse fall as a teenager.

You need to find someone with an open mind and the knowledge to sort it all out for you.

Keeping a journal was mentioned. When I've been awakened with my swollen hands I've gotten my digital camera out and turned on the low light setting and taken photos of the swelling in my hands. I've taken the top and palm sides so that my Neuro could see just how swollen they really are. My hands are swollen bilaterally, it's not only my left or right, unilaterally. Does TOS only affect one side or is this something that can affect both? I've also taken videos of my trigger finger and pinky when it's not wanting to straighten and bend normally at the same time that I'm taking the other photos. I turn my hands on the sides so that he can see the swelling from that angle too. I use the low density because it's a really great lighting to use and I can go right back to sleep if I've managed to get any sleep at all.
I tried to use the Lidoderm patches over my thumbs and wrists in the way that was described to use the Salonapas patches and on my right hand I'm feeling some relief this morning of the soreness that I had yesterday but it's numb. That is the thing that the Lidoderm does as far as any other medications in them, I don't think there are any. I know that the Salonapas has Capsacian in them and that is what gives the warming feeling and can create the redness if any that some experience. I have used it on my knees and feet a number of times, especially my knees! I lifted weights for a number of years and so it was my "friend" and I rollerskated as a form of exercise to keep my quads in shape because of chondromalacia.
Anyway, I'm going to call my Neuro's office yet again today to insist on a return phone call from my office visit to find out what his BIG PLAN is and if I do not get a phone call I am seeking the advice of another Neuro!!! I'm fed up waiting for his call and this is not the first time he has done this.

The Neuro said today that I need to follow up with my Family Practitioner ...it took him all this time to say this and I've already done this. Why couldn't my FP already see me and I just be done with this though? I am so ticked off today it's beyond my patience now. I have an appointment on the 19th with her and the Prednisone is having absolutely no effect whatsoever on my hands! I'm going over to Target today to get the other patches maybe between putting them on my knees tonight and my hands I can manage a good nights sleep and wake up really refreshed tomorrow with a hand on the blinds instead of my covers!

I bought the Salonpas today and I used two on the back of my left hand and two on my right forearm. I did some sweeping today on my patio and some gardening so my hand was sore and my forearm. My dog found some way underneath the fencing that I had put up to divide my patio for her and my gardens so I had to repair it and sweep the mess that she made. I also had to snip away at some cable ties that I used to stake up a plant that I had on the patio. It needed to be discarded and taken down because it had perished so it was just a busy day out on the garden and patio area. I was in desperate need of the Salonpas so I headed off to Target. I was surprised to see that they kept them behind the counter though. I didn't know why and I saw their store brand of patches beside the ICY HOT brand of patches. I wondered if it was a marketing strategy for the store! I had picked up three packages of the store brand before I noticed the Salonpas behind the counter! $4.95 store brand > $2.15 for the Salonpas! I think that says it all right there! I wanted to call the store manager and I still might tomorrow. When people are in pain they shouldn't be in some ways scammed like that!!! To me, the consumer it doesn't matter if it's a marketing strategy, that type of thing should be OUT ON THE SHELF right along with the other product unless there is a drug in there that is harmful and there is nothing in the patch that is. They have nothing more in them than the ICY HOT by comparison. I didn't really feel the warmth from the Salonpas patch but I think it was simply because I had worn the Lidoderm on my hand all night long and well into the morning, the full 12 hours. I'm just now getting some feeling back in the hand, even my palms stay numb and that's fine by me as much as I'm on my pc.
...had to pause for a sip after all of that!
I didn't mention that I am a Paralegal Grad. and I just do a lot of researching to keep up my skills so I'm a research mad dog on the pc. I am constantly looking things up for friends and family.

I need to go but I have been doing a lot of reading about TOS and I also saw where people with hypothyroid can have this, HMMMMM, there are sure a lot of things that cause this huh? Can't someone just have Carpal Tunnel and a trigger finger without TOS or do the two go "hand in hand"? My daughter told me I'm just getting "old people's syndrome"...a lot of years of doing stuff that ya just probably shouldn't have done! I told her that's like saying coulda shoulda woulda! She also said I do a lot of typing and have over the years and this is a prime example lol. Seriously if anyone has any other suggestions, please do let me know. I need to know all there is to know about TOS so I'll keep reading but I want to really thank everyone for their responses that they've given me! I so appreciate them more than you know!

This is why the Salonpas were behind the counter:

Pharmacies do not have unlimited shelf space out front.
The out front choice of products is determined by a floor plan that is made up at corporate. Some of the decisions are made with vendors to carry their product (in return for a reduced cost) and some decisions are made based on "turns". That is how often a product leaves the shelf (computer data collected from upc scans). Things like Icy Hot patches are heavily TV advertised, but Salonpas are not.

So each pharmacy can carry extra products behind the counter.
This is based on people asking for it to be special ordered thru the pharmacy wholesaler (rather than coming from Target's warehouse). There can be many valuable things in the store this way. For example the Costco I go to has generic SlowMag back there for $4.89. Just about every pharmacy carries things this way, because someone before you asked for the Salonpas.
RiteAid and Walgreen's have them on the shelf out front.
And Costco sells a huge box of 120 for about $7.00. This is where I get mine, because I use them alot.

You can experiment on where to put them...try them on your lower neck, upper back for the arm.

Here is how I found mine:
We had a box of samples at one store I was temping at, and at the time I had a huge swelling on my left Achille's tendon. My son had months before hit the back of my foot with a shopping cart at the grocery store. This swelling was about the size of an egg and very painful to wear shoes with. I went to a podiatrist and she only said "Motrin". Well I had already done that, and it was useless.
So I took about 10 samples home with me and put one on the tendon daily for a week. And the nasty thing went down, the pain stopped, and I was sold on them!

I use them on my feet almost every day, instead of taking pills of dangerous NSAIDs every day for the broken sesamoid bones I have in the balls of my feet. Over the years I've used them just about everywhere, except for the face.

There is a new Salonpas... that is more expensive..that has 10% of the active ingredient, methyl salicylate in them. I haven't tried those yet. (they were just FDA approved and are on that website too--the first FDA OTC pain patch!)
Salonpas do not have TV commercials so people don't know about them, unless they have visited Asia. There they are very popular and have been around for over 20 yrs!

For comparison, Icy Hot has only menthol...and is a poor choice.
Same with BenGay patches. Only the Salonpas original formula have active methyl salicylate in them.

That's great that you see some improvement. I'd keep with them every day for a week or two at least, then you may only need them as needed. There is no warning to remove them every 12 hrs like the Lidoderms, so you can use them around the clock if necessary.

Very occasionally I have found some redness when I take them off.
Different skin sites can be more sensitive. Just keep off them for a
day or so and it will go away. This reaction doesn't seem to be allergic, as I have been able to put the patches back on there and have no effect. Make sure the site you choose is clean and dry and don't trap lotions or soap residue there.