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Old 06-21-2008, 08:05 PM #1
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Originally Posted by Bearygood View Post
Kristi, I'm quite surprised you were prescribed D2 as opposed to D3 (aka Cholecalciferol). D3 is the equivalent to the "sunshine" factor and is processed in the body as a hormone -- it's specifically that form that's been the hot topic.

I started reading a lot about D3 after I was dxed and have been taking a little over 3,000 IUs daily for at least 9 months. (I ADD UP the D in my calcium and mult-vitamin and then supplement with two 1,000 capsules made by Jarrow.) Vitamin D can build up in the body and can be toxic so your levels should be monitored, as well as your liver function. I don't know if my levels were low before I started supplementing but my endocrinologist tested me a few months ago and even with the amount I'm taking, I was still within normal range (and my liver function was fine). However, I will continue to be monitored, having these tests repeated in future blood work. My endo explained to me that for some reason, they're finding that those high 50,000 IU doses weekly do not seem to present the same problems as high doses building up over time.

The RDA UL for "healthy" people has been raised to 600 IUs. There have been several studies about vitamin D (D3 specifically) possibly being helpful with various neurological disorders, not only MS (and not only in terms of prevention). I know many people with MS in the U.S. whose doctors have been recommending (if not prescribing) vitamin D3 to their patients even if their levels are not low. Most of the things I've read about using this supplement like a "drug" recommend up to 4,000 IUs daily but to reduce intake in the summer or if you live in a sunny climate year round. Again, do be careful though -- do your own research, speak to your doctors and if you DO take it, have your D levels and liver function tested periodically.
Hi,Bearygood

I don't know why my neuro prescribed vit D2,heck I didn't know there was a
D2 and D3, I just thought there was just Vit D period. I'm glad I started this thread,I've found out alot of good information from alot people here.
__________________
Diagnosed Probable MS 9/21/07
.

Started Copaxone 10/16/07


3-6-9 the goose drank wine the monkey chewed tobacoo on the street car line the line broke the monkey got choked and they all went to heaven in a little row boat...
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:45 PM #2
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Default Nerve Growth Factor -good Stuff

Most folks do not know much about this but NGF Nerve Growth Factor is great stuff to have in sufficient quantity to take care of those small? brain repair jobs common to MS folks.

If you are LOW in Vitamin D then you are probably LOW in NGF Nerve Growth Factor also.

I probably should start a new thread to elaborate on this topic.(Nerve Growth/Repair)

Suffice it to say that Vitamin D makes the body make NGF as stated in the below abstract.

http://www.copewithcytokines.de/cope.cgi?key=NGF (a GREAT sources of my info)

This is why I take 4000 IUs of Vit D3 supplement each day. The excess is GOOD for MS folks because our NEED is greater.

jackD

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9...ubmed_RVDocSum

Quote:
1: Nippon Yakurigaku Zasshi. 1997 Oct;110 Suppl 1:39P-43P.

[Novel pharmacological activity of a vitamin (novel pharmacological action of vitamin D)][Article in Japanese]


Fukuoka M, Ohta T, Kiyoki M.
Teijin Institute for Bio-Medical Research, Tokyo, Japan.

The endocrine system to maintain calcium homeostasis involves the active vitamin D, as well as parathyloid hormone (PTH). Based on this 'classical' calcium-regulatory function, 1,25-(OH)2D3 and 1 alpha OHD3 was developed as the drug for vitamin D resistant rickets, renal dystrophy, and osteoporosis. Psoriasis is a chronic skin disease which is characterized by hyperproliferation and abnormal differentiation of epidermis. As an anti-psoriatic drug, 1,24R-(OH)2D3 has been on clinical use. The efficacy for psoriasis is explainable by the differentiation-inducing activity of this compound. 1,25-(OH)2D3 was also reported to suppress proliferation and induce differentiation of tumor cells including breast cancer, colon cancer and so forth, suggesting the possible therapy of malignant tumors.

In immune system, active vitamin D3 exerts various effects; 1,25-(OH)2D3 suppresses proliferation and cytokine production in T cells and antibody production in B cells. Animal models of autoimmune diseases and skin-graft suggest active vitamin D becomes a novel immuno suppressant.

Since 1,25-(OH)2D3 induces the synthesis of nerve growth factor (NGF), it will be a new therapy for the treatment of neuronal degenerative diseases.

PMID: 9503403 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Last edited by jackD; 06-24-2008 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 06-24-2008, 05:38 PM #3
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Default NGF - Calcium - The Degenerative Stage of MS

Numerous neurotrophic growth factors help determine which neurons develop in the immature brain and which are retained in the adult brain.

Neurotrophic factors can also induce neurons to sprout axons capable of growing into new locations and forming new synaptic connections, a process that continues in the mature brain.

NGF (Nerve Growth Factor) is one essential neurotrophic growth factor. The below links describe how calcium is used in this process and how Glutamate toxicity kills neurons using Calcium in the Second stage of MS.


http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/brainstorm/br5904.htm (main article)

http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/brainstorm/br5906.htm (therapeutic potential)

http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/brainstorm/br5806.htm (Glutamate assassin/excitotoxic neuron murder)

The Second Stage of MS is "The Degenerative Stage" in which "excess Glutamate" runs wild on a killing spree. First phase, of course, is the "Inflammatory Stage" of MS.

http://home.ix.netcom.com/~jdalton/ms-two-stages.pdf

jackD

Last edited by jackD; 06-24-2008 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:10 PM #4
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Originally Posted by jackD View Post
Numerous neurotrophic growth factors help determine which neurons develop in the immature brain and which are retained in the adult brain.

Neurotrophic factors can also induce neurons to sprout axons capable of growing into new locations and forming new synaptic connections, a process that continues in the mature brain.

NGF (Nerve Growth Facto)r is one essential neurotrophic growth factor. The below links describe how calcium is used in this process and how Glutamate toxicity kills neurons using Calcium in the Second stage of MS.


http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/brainstorm/br5904.htm (main article)

http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/brainstorm/br5906.htm (therapeutic potential)

http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/brainstorm/br5806.htm (Glutamate assassin/excitotoxic neuron murder)

The Second Stage of MS is "The Degererative Stage" in which "excess Glutamate" runs wild on a killing spree. First phase, of course, is the "Inflammatory Stage" of MS.

http://home.ix.netcom.com/~jdalton/ms-two-stages.pdf

jackD

Thanks, Jack for all your good information on the subject.
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Diagnosed Probable MS 9/21/07
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Started Copaxone 10/16/07


3-6-9 the goose drank wine the monkey chewed tobacoo on the street car line the line broke the monkey got choked and they all went to heaven in a little row boat...
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:21 PM #5
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Hi jackD! You are making want to go to the library and get a biochem book!! I am sure I got rid of my college book when it was 25 years old.

I am concerned that NGF also influences the activity of B and T cells. I would have to understand how a little better.

I did find vitamin D3 at BJs Wholesale Club in 1000 IU capsules. I understand why we may need more.

I very much liked your last link because it had the best graphic explaining the nerve issues with the chemicals and how Copaxone works in certain situations.If anyone has a little knowledge about biochem you really should take a peek.

I don't know how you are finding this material, in its complete form, but I am glad you are sharing it. Its not easy to find more than just an abstract.

I know that our dendrites can grow and elongate,

http://www-als.lbl.gov/als/science/s...9receptor.html

and that is why my neuro told me about Wii actually helping to grow these for folks who can't get enough activity outside of the home.

So to keep this back to Vitamin D, it supports the NGF, if I am interpretting this properly.
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:31 PM #6
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Originally Posted by starfish View Post
Hi jackD! You are making want to go to the library and get a biochem book!! I am sure I got rid of my college book when it was 25 years old.

I am concerned that NGF also influences the activity of B and T cells. I would have to understand how a little better.

I did find vitamin D3 at BJs Wholesale Club in 1000 IU capsules. I understand why we may need more.

I very much liked your last link because it had the best graphic explaining the nerve issues with the chemicals and how Copaxone works in certain situations.If anyone has a little knowledge about biochem you really should take a peek.

I don't know how you are finding this material, in its complete form, but I am glad you are sharing it. Its not easy to find more than just an abstract.

I know that our dendrites can grow and elongate,

http://www-als.lbl.gov/als/science/s...9receptor.html

and that is why my neuro told me about Wii actually helping to grow these for folks who can't get enough activity outside of the home.

So to keep this back to Vitamin D, it supports the NGF, if I am interpretting this properly.
THANKS!!

You are right about the Vit D and NGF connection.

That techie site...

http://www.copewithcytokines.de/cope.cgi?key=NGF

says that ...
Quote:
Serum, phorbol 12-myristate 13-acetate (see also: Phorbol esters), and vitamin D3 are potent inducers of NGF synthesis. Glucocorticoids inhibit the synthesis of NGF.
.

That comment about Glucocorticoids (STEROIDS) blocking NGF production is a real bummer.

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Old 06-24-2008, 08:54 PM #7
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Default idebenone - NGF

I also take some IDEBENONE to get some extra NGF production in my brain. It is a bit expensive and you need to take 2 caps daily.

jackD

p.s. It a modified form of CQ-10 and is somewhat difficult to find in stores. I hear the rats love the stuff. I can now make it thru the water maze in a flash.

Quote:
1: Naunyn Schmiedebergs Arch Pharmacol. 1994 Apr;349(4):401-7.

Oral administration of idebenone induces nerve growth factor in the brain and improves learning and memory in basal forebrain-lesioned rats.

Nitta A, Murakami Y, Furukawa Y, Kawatsura W, Hayashi K, Yamada K, Hasegawa T, Nabeshima T.

Department of Neuropsychopharmacology and Hospital Pharmacy, Nagoya University School of Medicine, Japan.

Nerve growth factor plays an important role in the survival and maintenance of cholinergic neurons in the central neuronal system. In senile dementia of the Alzheimer type, learning and memory are impaired by the loss of neurons in the magnocellular cholinergic neuronal system.

It is therefore, of interest to investigate the role of nerve growth factor in this degenerative disorder.

Since nerve growth factor does not cross the blood-brain barrier and is easily metabolized by peptidases when administered peripherally, it can be used for medical treatment only when directly injected into the brain.

We demonstrate here that the oral administration of idebenone, a potent in vitro nerve growth factors synthesis stimulator, induced an increase in nerve growth factor protein and mRNA, and in choline acetyltransferase activity, in basal forebrain lesioned rats, but not in intact rats.

Idebenone also ameliorated the behavioral deficits in habituation, water maze, and passive avoidance tasks in these animals.

These results suggest that idebenone stimulated nerve growth factor synthesis in vivo and ameliorates the behavioral deficits which were accompanied with the recovery of the reduced choline acetyltransferase activity in the basal forebrain-lesioned rats.

PMID: 8058112 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Quote:
1: Zh Nevrol Psikhiatr Im S S Korsakova. 2008;108(4):27-32.Links
[Noben (idebenone) in the treatment of dementia and memory impairment without dementia][Article in Russian]


[No authors listed]
Noben (idebenone) was administered in dosage 120 mg during 6 months to 35 patients, aged from 60 to 86 years, with dementia, Alzheimer's type and mixed type, and with memory disturbances which did not reach the level of dementia. The assessment of patient's state before and after treatment was based on the results of somatic, neurological and psychiatric examination as well as neuropsychological testing and using of psychometrical and other scales. The significant improvement on the MMSE scale was found in patients with mild and moderate dementia.

The improvement of daily activity was observed in 27% of patients. The neuropsychological study revealed the improvement of short-term and delayed memory and attention, speech functions, the performance on kinesthetic, spatial and dynamic praxis tests, visual-spatial gnosis, reasoning and writing.

The positive therapeutic effect assessed by the CGI scale was observed in 37% of patients, the stable state--in 48%.

PMID: 18454094 [PubMed - in process]

Last edited by jackD; 06-25-2008 at 10:56 AM.
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