I was over the top out-of-line last message
 

Waves: When I wrote the last message to you I was hysterical about what I was experiencing somatically. I am inexperienced with psychotropic medications and I have overly "educated" myself by reading all the extreme stuff on the internet about withdrawal.

Of course, my anxiety is the baseline problem and I have had a hard time accepting that I have this problem when it had never escalated into the episode I am suffering now. No: I do understand that Klonopin is NOT the answer (nor the problem). No I do not think this drug is the only thing that can help me. I think actually it is hurting me by forcing a hypnotic rather than normal sleep. It concerns me as well that I have been given Elavil and I wonder if my recent slow cognitive function and brain fog is caused not just by the Kpin but this as well.

I have begun psychotherapy — hoping that this is the key.

As to other things like deep breathing I have practiced Qigong and Taiji for many years so I know what you are referring to. It seems however that when I am in this worked-up state — which seems to occur consistently from early evening when I get closer to taking my Kpin dose — I find it impossible to control what is going on in my body. Again, this is all likely psychosomatically-induced paranoia or resistance about getting in deeper with the drugs and despairing that there is something truly wrong with me!

I really didn't want to alienate you since you have been forthcoming and kind to write to me in the first place when I was merely scared about Neurontin.

I think my greatest fear is a Humpty-Dumpty syndrome — wondering if I ever will regain the balanced and clear-headed consciousness I have experienced up until this point in my life. I am 55 years old and while I have always been someone who is a nervous type this whole incident is way beyond anything I knew about myself. I guess fearing that you would die of lung cancer or that you will have prolonged Valley Fever syndrome scared me to my depths and I just cracked.

As to whether my psych will continue working with me SHE said that given it is approaching 2 months "any slower reduction at this point will merely guarantee that I will be on Kpin for a long time and it will be very difficult to get off of it."

So I do hope that I will hear from you again and I wish you well.

Good to hear from you, Adamo
 

Hi Adamo,

Actually was just going to post again because I was afraid I had spooked you. :o Sorry if I was too hard on you last time and thank you for posting back.

I appreciate your getting back to me on the "other" ways of controlling anxiety. I have a better idea of where you are at now. You have experience in a couple of Eastern disciplines and so are familiar with many other (non-drug) approaches; even so, these aren't effective for you in a crisis. That is a very different picture than a person who hasn't tried the techniques or is exclusively focused on medication.

About the 2 months thing, and getting off the drug sooner than later. I think your doctor is trying to encourage you to come off it if you can handle the process. I agree that as long as you can handle it, the sooner the better. I have said so before.

In your last post, it sounded like you were afraid you could not handle it... possibly with good reason. I can only go by what you tell me. It sounded like you were starting to... to use a candid technical term... ;) flip out. That would be bad in itself, first; second, if you ended up in the hospital again, they might put you back on the full Klonopin dosage, and it would be the worst of both worlds.

Let me try to explain what I meant saying that the two month mark is arbitrary. I myself have read many benzo drug inserts indicating 8 weeks as the "no longer than" length of treatment, including a period of gradual suspension. This is a safety thing they put in, based on the way they conduct clinical trials, and the duration of the trials too. Bear in mind that drug companies only test things for a specific duration, and they must cover their proverbial behinds. Besides that, their data is necessarily statistics-based; each individual case will vary. There is one more thing, and as a rational person, I am sure you will agree: no human brain is going to change overnight to day after 7 weeks and 6 days, because after exactly 8 weeks, DING! Total dependence! No. That is not a magic boundary. The process is gradual.

In view of all this, I agree that a taper should be done within the recommended time if possible, but I do not agree with forcing suspension into an 8 week period beyond an individual's capacity to deal with it. That is likely to be counter-productive. Even if your symptoms are psychosomatic, it doesn't mean they don't count. Hopefully your doctor has been able to evaluate you when you are at your worse... perhaps she sees that you are, indeed, "handling it" better than you feel you are?

I do hope the psychotherapy helps. Acceptance of mental health issues of any kind is difficult. In your case, it sounds to me like a simple stress reaction. The whole experience with the possible cancer dx, Valley fever, and then the gabapentin was a huge strain on you. You will recover. It will probably take time to get back to your 100% but I believe you will. You are no Humpty Dumpty. Humpty Dumpty is like a china plate. No amount of glue can make a plate regenerate. We humans do. We grow new flesh, new bone, we process feelings, we reregulate chemical processes... the works. ;) You won't be exactly the same as before, but hopefully you will be stronger because you will have learned from this process.

Were you panicking when you posted about your job, or do you truly have concerns about losing it? If so, what about a medical leave of absence or would that put you in further jeopardy?

How are you feeling now? Are you still taking 0.75 mg Klonopin, and what is the current plan?

Look forward to your news. Take care.

waves

Update
 

My psyche has now decided to make me stop taking my .75 mg Klonopin entirely and at once. Her claim is that as I have already tapered from 2mg down to .75 this month, the cost/benefit analysis is that it is better than continuing at .5, .25 for another 2 weeks. She claims that as I have already been on Elavil at a therapeutic dose for a sufficient time such a cessation is not "cold turkey" unsupported. She maintains that I will likely encounter uncomfortable yet "bearable" side-effects for 2-4 weeks. I am a bit petrified to tell the truth. What can I do but suffer insomnia, etc. and hope that she is right! What do you think I should watch out for especially in the 5-7 day zone of such abrupt? cessation? I really wonder about these clinicians who have never experienced Klonopin withdrawal. Obviously, I am just going to have deal with it. My anxiety, panic attacks, insomnia, tremor, head pain and aches, etc. in the last few days has been fully debilitating. Trying to hold on to my job by my fingernails — not to mention a stressed and endangered marriage.

Everything I read on the internet contradicts what she is saying but she is the doctor. Will I be experiencing something worse than if I had tapered further down? I guess I will have to see.

Best wishes. Adamo

Hi Adamo
 

Just a quick post to tell you I am thinking about you. I know how difficult tapering down on a medication is. Just keep remembering, that the symptoms you feel right now will go away. It may take a few weeks or so, but at some point you will even out. Maybe the doctor you saw figured to do it all at once to get it done and over with. I am not sure the reasoning.
When I did this same thing getting off Morphine, I was one miserable lady for about 6 months. I found out it is wonderful not to depend on that medication. I did flip out a few times and just hollered about nothing. It did end, and it was worth all the effort not to be on that medication. I hope in the end you will feel the same way being relieved of Klonopin. Take care of yourself. ginnie:grouphug:

My party is just starting
 

Its not even 24 hours and I feel sick and wretched. I'm already sensing that without further titrating this whole thing is going to be UNNECESSARILY nasty and prolonged experience. I've looked and looked and never heard of anyone simply going from .75 mg to 0 without getting hit hard. What can I do? My doctor is not prescribing anything else and that's that.

Hi Adamo,
 

I hope that you have support with friends and family. Just keep telling yourself it will be over.
In my own case, sleeping was horrible, twitchy legs, couldn't stop motion, hot and cold, Yuk. Yes I did call into the doctor and she did tell me it is par for the course.
I did things to distract me, Yell a few times and got angry, took a walk even if it hurt, tried my best to read, Listen to Dylan and attack some small project in the garage, Wash a floor on my butt and cry a bit, have a pitty party for a day or so, Join the women of the Moose, walk more. Yell more. I got over it!

I know someone reading this may chuckle, that's OK too. So many of us here Adamo, know how hard this is and we are here to support you. If you can find one tiny thing to distract you, that is that one moment you are not thinking about your symptoms. I promise, one moment will lead to another, and before long you will feel better. Keep in touch with me. I will always listen to you and encourage you to keep on trucking. ginnie:grouphug:

I am sorry for what you are going through, Adamo.
 

I think you're likely to see the same types of symptoms you've been seeing. I don't think it is useful to anticipate symptoms or search for symptoms that you might or might not have.

I am sorry. Have you explained to your wife what is going on? Might it help to give her some material to read? Sometimes it helps to get very specific with loved ones... let them know precise things that they can do to help you, even if they are small things like running a bath, making you some tea, or doing exercises with you. Doing this can give a sense of empowerment and make your partner (or other family members) a part of your recovery process. Otherwise, what happens is loved ones often feel confused and useless, sometimes even excluded, all of which tend to add negativity and strain to the relationship.
There is no telling. Ordinarily I would never advocate cutting that much Klonopin, but, as we've noted before, your response to the drug when you take it seems to have a significant placebo component as it is much too great and too rapid to be ascribable to a pill which has not made it into the blood much less peaked. This suggests to me, as it probably does to your doctor, that the symptoms you are experiencing are not true withdrawal symptoms but a sort of nocebo effect -- you expect to feel those symptoms and your brain consequently produces them. Working hypothesis/possible explanation for your doctor's approach: you do not need the drug, but are convinced that you do; once you are off it for a bit, you will be ok.

Ginnie is very right about distracting yourself, but not just from the symptoms. Try to distract yourself from thinking about your need for Klonopin. Do something else, think about something else, worry about something else. (I realize when you post to us, you will be posting about these concerns... that's fine... I realize the issue will not just go *POOF*. Just saying, when you're off on your own. Don't read stuff about Klonopin /benzo's/ drug withdrawals. Doing that cannot help you, only hurt you. Don't dwell. Each time your mind comes to this topic, or to some symptom, keep moving your mind away, onto unrelated thoughts and activities.)

Even if your doctor has not experienced the symptoms, she has undoubtedly seen other patients. You did say she was an addiction specialist, and I explained above why I think she might be pulling you off.

Sensing, or believing, because you are forming expectations from what you read? People who go from 0.75 to 0 mg without getting hit hard do not bother to write about it. All you will find are the horror stories. Stop torturing yourself this way, please! :eek: You are setting yourself up for a negative outcome. :o

Regardless of the explanation for your experience, I appreciate that you are going through one heck of a time. You do have the option of looking for another doctor. I take it you have not because you trust this one? I repeat, if you do not feel comfortable with your doctor's approach, look for one who will simply work with you, and allow you to go at your own pace.

Know that things will be ok, Adamo.... probably sooner than you expect. Do what you need to do to take care of yourself. If that means finding a different doctor and staying on Klonopin for a time, so be it -- that is not the end of the world. Follow your gut on that one, and keep putting one foot in front of the other.

waves

Really in trouble now
 

I am 48 hours into stopping .75 mg Klonopin and I have horrible anxiety/agitation, complete insomnia, fever, nausea, chest pains, high BP/Pulse, etc.

Do any of you know what I will have to endure to get past the 72 hour mark?
Will I be incapacitated for weeks or months? I feel like I'm going to die! I think Waves you are right in thinking that I am psychosomatic but I think the Klonopin really aggravated the underlying anxiety. I cant go to work because Im so sick. My wife has left to her mother's as a separation.

Am I in danger or anything?

Adamo

Yuck!
 

You are probably ok, although the fever concerns me somewhat -- how high is it? Elevated temp and even fever can be a withdrawal symptom, and can be psychosomatic, but a high fever can be dangerous regardless of the cause. If it is high, you must get medical attention.

In any case, I think you should call your doctor right away and report all of this, in detail. If she feels you are in danger she will refer you to an urgent care or send you to ER.

Also consider those options if you cannot get ahold of your doctor. Bring all your meds and be prepared to give the attending physicians your recent Klonopin reduction schedule. (Write a short list down, if you feel you will have trouble talking.)

I think I'd like to see you working with a different doctor, one who will allow you to suspend more slowly. Sigh.

No one, not even a doctor, can realisitcally predict what another person will experience during a benzo reduction, or for how long. In general, an individual's past experience (and not that of other people) is the best predictor of his/her future experience. This applies not only to drugs, but also to situations, illnesses, all sorts of things.
It certainly got worse with the Klonopin, possibly because you are aware that this drug is well known to cause dependence and so expected that from the getgo... my view/opinion. With psychosomatic symptoms, it is tends to go like this: you are most likely to get symptoms you anticipate, suspect you will get, or fear.
I am so sorry! :hug: I hope you two will patch things up as you start feeling better.

Hang in there! I am rooting for you.

waves

Hi Adamo
 

Take care of the fever first. I don't exactly know what is causing that. I didn't know klonopin could do that.
As far as the symptoms go, I don't think it will get worse than what you are experiencing right now. Each day I was off my medication, I felt better.
After a few weeks of feeling kinda jittery, all symptoms eased up. Just distract yourself and try not to think about it. If you have a hobby, this is the time to do it. Get lost in some other task, and you will be better off. I care Adamo,,....this situation you are in will have an end and you will feel better. ginnie:grouphug: