clarifications
 

I am taking tablets. I took .25 mg at 11 pm and was calm in 5 minutes which means that the severe agitation and hyperventilation stopped. I was calm enough not to be shaking and not moaning out loud in agony. I waited a little while longer until 12:15 AM to take the rest of .75 mg. I did not sleep really and woke up at 330 AM with severe pains in my rib-cage from a day of excessive panic and hyperventilating, and anxiety.

I spoke to my psyche and now she is having me take .25 at noon and .75 at night to keep blood level somewhat constant. I am determined to stick to 1 mg a day at this point and want to stop somehow over the next month. I might just be deluding myself because my withdrawal is so far quite extreme. I don't know if the Neurontin would have been better to get off of but I'm sure it wouldn't be like this!

Hope you haven't got that migraine.

You are very sweet
 

I appreciate your encouragement. At this point I can't go through what I went through yesterday cause I'll end up in the hospital with something worse! I keep getting people telling me since i've been on a high dose 1-2 mg for 6 weeks I should expect 6 + weeks withdrawals and many months after this with symptoms to make me indigent. I'm trying to keep my head up and your comments help me!

ok, some thoughts... eeks
 

Hi AdamoHmmmm. Well, that is very fast indeed, and quite a dramatic change in symptoms. Let's just say that if I had a similar reaction I would not be thinking in terms of blood levels. I hope that doesn't upset you.

Well, I do think this is a very sensible approach. I hope it has you feeling better and that you can still sleep some.

I think if you can handle it and the doc thinks it is safe for you, it does seem like a good idea to get it over with.

Very important though......... Is the doc aware of the intensity of your symptoms? Have you shared with her your doubts about the rate of reduction?

Equally important, although why is hard to explain......... Try to think positively. Be open to the possibility of having a smoother ride, rather than letting yourself be spooked by others' negative predictions. A positive thing to do is learn ways to help cope with and/or moderate the symptoms, and do those things if/when symptoms emerge, but do not worry about ahead of time. That's like withdrawing twice -- before and during, and the before-worry conditions the during-symptoms!Probably, but .... water under the bridge. ;)

Thanks, I haven't so far, but it's been my second day with one and this timing historically means I am fair game for them for another 10 days. I can't always treat them, so, if I appear to "go missing" at some point, please know that it isn't because I don't care or anything of the kind.

waves

p.s. Have you tried the belly breathing? Looked into any other relaxation techniques?

Your clear thinking is appreciated
 

I understand what you are getting at. As an analytic person, to the contrary I am not upset by what you imply because it has given me food for thought. If I get your drift: You are saying that no matter how potent Klon may be, one's mind (i.e., what one thinks or believes by interpretation of what appears to be transpiring physically) is much more powerful! In other words, my calming down in a mere 5 minutes is because of my giving the drug more power than it really has; or, a placebo effect. At the same time, if I believe too much in other people's disastrous reports I create a layered (or doubled) result of withdrawal by projecting into the future with apprehension rather than taking things as they come. My psychology is aggravating the situation because of the type of person I am — someone who throughout his life has dedicated and achieved things that everyone believes are "impossible." However, in this case I am a fish out of water. I appreciate that you say I should focus on coping with my mental aberration by understanding it better and doing so without thinking it is simply about the drugs. It should go hand in hand with cognitively distinguishing symptoms which are due to withdrawal and those that are merely a result of my thinking trying to control things by force of will. If one takes this as a model it is NOT "hard to explain" why "positive thinking" might have the opposite effect. Why shouldn't I have a smoother ride? Unless of course I am giving myself too a hard time by thinking I am a flawed or damaged person.

We are total strangers in reality. With all the of the time and energy you have put into corresponding with me how could I possibly think "you don't care"? I hope my catastrophizing over what may be a modest problem relative to what others are going through makes me seem like a self-centered and insensitive fellow. I am ashamed that I have not asked more about the challenges you are facing.

I have shared the intensity of my withdrawal symptoms with my psych and thus her doing what she can — phoning in for hydroxyzine hcl at midnight yesterday. And yes I want to get it over with sooner than later. I don't know why I keep thinking that once cessation occurs I will have even a worse set of withdrawal phenomena — probably a result of believing too much of what I read. I gather from what you have written to me that SEVEN weeks of Klon at a 1-2mg dose is not that serious of a dependence (i.e., psychological not physical). I will have to ride it out and just see.

Please let me extend best wishes to you for your kind attention and for your (Ginnie's and especially Dr. Smith's) good health.

whew!
 

Hi Adamo,

I am glad you took what I said ok. It really can help to be able to be very analytical about these things, doesn't it? Do remember I'm not a doctor so I can't really be 100% sure of these things, but a pill takes a couple minutes even to dissolve, let alone be absorbed... that got me thinking there could be something else at play.

I still think it was good that your doctor changed the dosing schedule. Even if you are getting a kind of placebo effect, and even if you are getting a nocebo effect from the reduction (experiencing severe symptoms because you expect them), the actual symptoms are still 100% real, and you still have to manage them somehow. Altering your dosing schedule so that you can expect a better outcome is entirely appropriate.

The thinking is very powerful, yes, but expectations are only part of it. And I do agree with what you say ... at least, what I think you were saying... that setting positive expectations can set us up for a fall. I just think it is important to stay open. Being open is different from being expectant.

I can't say enough how important I think it is to cultivate skills to help you with the anxiety. This is a "positive" form of behavior more than thinking. It is a helpful way to be proactive. Research is a form of being proactive and, as another analytical person, I certainly appreciate the desire to be informed and prepared. However, when the material read starts to induce fear, the act of researching ceases to serve its intended purpose, becoming instead a detrimental activity.

I know that right now the anxious sx are out of this world and you might not be able to neutralize them with breathing or other relaxation techniques, but you can almost certainly diminish them some. (And if you are one who can do the impossible, then by golly, you might just be able to wipe them out all together!! :D) In any case, relaxation skills are a great life investement... they can be used in any "normal" stressful situation, long past the needs you'd currently have for them.

Don't worry about not asking about me... this thread is about you, and it is natural that we talk about your situation. :)

I saw an interesting video recently about "good" worry and "bad" worry... it was roughly three sections, one was sort of functional, another was phsiological and the last one was a guided visualization. The whole thing was by an MD. I'd have to find it again but I think I can... the thing is, it is 1.5 hours long (I had to watch it in 3 installments), but I did hang in there and I thought it was quite useful. Would you be interested in that?

Thank you for the well wishes, Adamo. :) I too hope that Doc is doing better. Ginnie is always such a dear.

waves

Gabepentin
 

Gabepentin does not cause withdrawal symptoms in the same manner as opiate meds.

Gabepentin has scrambled my brain after taking it for nerve pain. I'd love to come off it and I appreciate you sharing your experience. Your symptoms sound neurologic in nature.

getting very difficult!
 

I cut from 1 mg to .75 last night. Today daytime anxiety unbelievable. I am now at 7 + weeks. I am using the vistaril perhaps too much. At this point I despair that I will ever be able to function with a clear head.

I know that if I remain at .75 for too long and don't cut to .5 soon and so on I am reaching past the 2 month mark and may find it impossible to stop. I think I am close to losing my job.

Waves: Could you put some of this in perspective for me (off the record of course)?

Alrighty. I do not like the sound of the situation you are in.

My take... FWIW:

That '2 month mark' is pretty arbitrary. In general, the slower you taper the easier it is. Your situation sounds like it is getting too hard.

I do not see that coming off Klonopin needs to be rushed, especially not with you in this condition (overwraught with anxiety). With the gabapentin, you described being non-functional at work because it doped you up when you took it. I don't believe that is the case with the Klonopin, correct? You are lucid with it, right? I mean, right now, were it not for the anxious symptoms, you'd be functioning fine?

Can you ask your doctor to stay put with the Klonopin, until you stabilize? Frankly, if it were me, I'd be asking to go back up to 1.0 mg, and stay there until I felt better.

After you feel better, you could resume the taper. In regard to that, based on all you've posted so far, I would ask to taper by decrements of 0.125 mg (there are scored 0.5 mg tablets or you can ask for 0.125mg wafers).

waves

as bad as it can get
 

Four hours tonight pacing up and down in agonizing chest pain, hyperventilation, and moaning. Zero sleep last night and anxiety shaking of a very violent type since .25 mg reduction to .75. Doctor says I can't go back up to 1 mg. Facing a total meltdown! I believe I have already reached tolerance withdrawal — is this possible after only 7 weeks? Or is it merely my baseline psychiactric anxiety that is operating? Can't stabilize. Help!

Hi Adamo
 

I am very sorry. I have the good fortune that I have always undertaken tapers at my own request, and therefore, at my own pace.

If the doc won't let you go back up (I didn't really expect that she would, but it was worth a try), is she at least going to let you stay put for a while and then suspend more slowly... will she keep prescribing? If not, you might want to find a doctor who will work with you to go at a pace which is tolerable to you.

Impossible to tell; I advise you not to spin your wheels trying to figure it out. It makes absolutely no difference, why or how your anxiety comes about. Bottom line: it is there and it has to be managed.

Use other tools to feel better. Klonopin is not the only answer. Cultivate some skills. It takes practice but these things help. If you know how to belly-breathe, for instance, you can use that to stop hyperventilating.

You have not once responded in regard non-drug approaches for managing anxiety. :o Must I interpret this to mean that you believe only the drug can help you?

waves