[cyclelops]

This doesn't pertain to PN exactly, but I was wondering what some of the more physiologically-chemically-molecularly astute people on here would have to say about bisphosphonates, such as Fosamax.

What I am wondering is.....Since bone is metabolically 'active'....that is, alive tissue that is exchanging chemicals with the blood stream, doesn't turning it into a what is essentially a synthetic alter our bodily metabolism? I am not directing this question at the known issues such as jaw necrosis or femoral fractures, but, more at the molecular issue.

It seems to me, that the drugs basically turn bone to stone. Making bone harder does not make it stronger.

I get really nervous when I see a lot of litigation surrounding a drug and it is given out as protocol. (I started on low dose prednisone, bone density now is normal). I am wondering at what point a 'prevention' or 'cure' is worse than the option. This stuff can cause atrial fib, esophageal erosion or cancer even...not to mention the other bone issues.

This was developed as a 'bone cancer' drug, from what I can see and it then became the cure all for any one with bone issues, now a 'preventative'? Eh, call me skeptical. Is this more marketing hype? It is going to take a lot of convincing to get me to swallow this one.

[mrsD]

No, you are correct. These are not good choices. They ultimately kill the bone cells that make new bone.

What started out as a good idea, did not pan out for the long term.

[Sheltiemom18]

I read or heard in a TV medical segment that bone goes through something like "shedding" cycles, and if one has the bone density test when bone is shedding, it will appear that the bone is thinner than it really is once the shedding has stopped and the new bone builds up.

Had a bone density test in 2005 and told I had osteopenia. Did not want to take any of the drugs and haven't. Going with calcium/D and lots of dairy.

Sheltiemom

[cyclelops]

I just think at times we tinker with mother nature a bit too much....I am enjoying my dairy, taking calcium and Vit. D, and making sure I plonk up and down the stairs. As soon as the glacier melts, I will venture out for my slogs. I have a treadmill but it seems more like a grindstone to me.

Call me crazy, but, real seems better than synthetic.

[cyclelops]

Not to get too chatty about this, but, this stuff kills osteoclasts....possibly permanently. Osteoclasts FREE up the minerals that MAKE new bone, as well as destroying old decaying 'infrastructure'. Basically, they recycle the building blocks of bone. So, bisphosphonates, kill these cells, in a short sighted attempt to keep them from 'destroying' bone, if my assessment is correct.

Plus, they are phosphonates....as related to phosphorus, which altho needed in bone building, can also drain the bone of calcium?? We are supposed to NOT have too much phosphorus in our diets. Most Americans have too much due to soft drink consumption. So if this garbage was good for us, why not drink more soda, as we call it here...pop to some.

So, they are stopping normal bone recycling....they call it bone destruction, but it isn't. It is stopping normal recycling of bone and replacing this bone with an artificial phosphorus like compound which altho 'hard' can shatter like ceramics.

Lord....what is next.

I am 58....the longest I could expect to inhabit this body is 40 more years. (10 looks more realistic right now). If my bone metabolism doesn't work right, or AT ALL, I would think this decreases my life span, not lengthens it. Then they give you stats like this...."Half of all people who fracture a hip die within the year"....well of course, either they are OLDER to begin with, OR, they took this junk and can't function with concrete bones....cuz, duh, Calcium and K and Mg and Phosphorus are a bit important to other organs too. These scare tactics big pharma is using is dirty marketing....this is garbage....garbage stats.

Who, WHO comes up with these ridiculous therapies?? Some one who has no concept of how the body as a whole organism functions??

[dahlek]

THAT has been my delemma for the last 15 years! I feel like I'm now made of glass, and fragile stuff at that. BUT? I went with the seemingly best 'conventional' wisdom at the time also the safest known then, and I also knew the possible pitfalls. I GOT revenge in ACES!
I feel that my 'auto-immune and immune' problems that developed almost concurrently were complicating factors as THEY weren't as promptly diagnosed as could have been more beneficial in the long term.
Result? I definitely NO LONGER WALK ON OR DEAL WITH ICE in any shape or form. My last fall was disastrous, if not catastrophic.
Soo, what to do? Try something 'new'? or just scrap it all! THAT is an individual choice and only YOU can make it... just know all the pros and cons before deciding. It all can't be 'undone' later!
I hope that that whole heap of Mrs D's researches can and does help you decide and that you also come out of all that reading able to speak in complete sentences! You all know what I mean!
Hugs and hope? Always! - j

[cyclelops]

J, I value personal experience.

You can't beat yourself up for taking cutting edge meds. There are reasons we get offered these meds, such as for me, prednisone....and I am well aware of bone loss due to prednisone....but when all is said and done, do, I want the results of the bisphosphonates along WITH the disease, or do I just let the prednisone beat me up and see what I can do when I see where I got punched.

I have read that bisphosphonates can last 12 years. Maybe yours will wear off?

I have no option but to have a relationship with ice, it is here, 6 months out of the year, in all forms. Eh, either way, a fall is catastrophic. I made it thru the IV steroids for 16 weeks, back a few years ago....bone density was normal when done back then....and recently, so, I am going to hang in, hoping that this low dose won't wreak the havoc it could do.

Thanks J for sharing your story.

[cyclelops]

J, there is research that some people develop an immune response, activation of T cells to bisphosphonates. I have read of a few very terrible reactions. You may have something when you say that the drug may have triggered immune issues.

[Apollo]

Mrs. D:

Are you saying then that the once a year bone supplements that are now routinely offered for older women (especially those who are petite or slight in stature) are harmful?

Thanks!

David

[mrsD]

Yes, the whole family of drugs called bisphosphonates are problematic.

The mechanism that they use to affect the bone is the same for all, including Reclast.

Here is a link to warning for Reclast:
http://www.druglib.com/druginfo/recl...s_precautions/