I also think empathy may be genetic in some cases - but is learned also..... another phrase to describe it is "active listenting" - just repeating what a person just says to you to let them know you understand what they are saying is sometimes so crucial.... I actually had a class back in the dark ages in B school just on this topic - at the time I thought it was a fun easy A - but it was critical for people going into management - etc.... (of course some never got it anyway).... if you dont listen you dont hear what others real needs and pain may be - and just by repeating back to them acknowledges those feelings.....

In regards to social situations - it is interesting to watch how others respond to tramatic effects in our own lives.... those with empathy often understand the I'm sorry, what can I do, or even just a HUG sends such a strong message... its a comfort - people need to know they are being heard, that no one else can take away the pain, but there are those who care and you can reach out to them if need be - just again, for a HUG...... and yes, there is an "outpouring" right after a tramatic life event - and it does disspear very fast - and Cyclops - you're right - its important to continue to remember those people who are hurting - the first holidays, etc.....

For those of us chronically ill and dealing with huge life changes ourselves - I watch how my fam and friends have dealth with it... I cant participate in normal life any more, including eating and driving - some of them have been great - some literally pretend I'm dead... (she cant eat or drive - why bother) And if one is homebound - the pain can be devestating.....

I encourage all of us to reach out to someone else (and sometimes I mean just literally physcially reach out) and offer them comfort - everyone we come in contact with with influence in some way - one never knows when it will make an important change to another.......

I agree that certain aspects of empathy are genetic, when my daughter passed two of my closest friends didn't attend the service or acknowlegde her death with a card.
I am forgiving of them because I understand they lack the skills to be able to contact me, whether it's denial or not being able to face me with the right words, instead I feel bad for them.
As for here on the home front, I don't get empathy from anyone, which sometimes makes me furious, but I keep it to myself. I feel that no one can feel your pain or the intensity of it so they can't understand something they can't visualize.
On a lighter note I have started pool therapy, I love it, all floaty and no pain, I might be able to restart all my frozen muscles afterall, oh for a pool in my backyard, covered of course!!

kmeb:

You wrote: "some literally pretend I'm dead... (she cant eat or drive - why bother) And if one is homebound - the pain can be devestating....."

My god, who would have ever thought that family members can think like this.
My how times have changed.

Melody

People in many cases are afraid of illness or dont know how to deal with it - for some they are scared they are going to "catch" my neuropathy (I've had drivers from the agency I use for transportation make me sit in the back seat for fear of germs) - others I know it upsets them to see me so disabled after being so active my whole life - but the true ones hang in there... but think about how many activities revolve around food and meals... I dont mind watching others eat, but if you cant drive to get to the location and I'm out of the way of anyone really any more - ya kinda get forgotten.....

I understand.

Alan and I don't live near any of our family. We live in Brooklyn, and everybody else lives in New Jersey.

His family AND my family.

We have missed so many family get togethers because Alan hasn't driven in 6 years. I remember 40 or so years ago, when, if a family member didn't drive, SOMEONE came and picked them up. My Aunt Lucy didn't drive so one of my mother's other 4 sister's husbands came and got my Aunt Lucy. This was every weekend. Every Sunday, every friday night. Someone went and picked up Aunt Lucy, brought her over to my house (with everybody else) and then at night, SOMEONE always took her home. My Aunt Angie also. In those days, it was never thought of to get together and leave someone out.

But most of these people have passed away and my generation is not the same and my mother's generation. The people today are entirely more self absorbed. Even if they drive, well, they are too enmeshed in their own lives to think of going out of their comfort zone and pick up someone.

I would never asked to be picked up. In the past, if access-a-ride took us to a person's house, and then we had to go to ANOTHER person's house via a car, Alan and I would always pay for the gas. I don't care how rich a person is, if I'm riding in that car and they are driving, I chip in for the gas.

But now the Access-a-ride is on strike, and even if you get a trip you are told "we can't guarantee that someone will come and you can't bring a guest'. So I had to skip Cornell last Friday. They are mailing me my meds.

They are very nice at Cornell.

But we are used to having at least the Access-a ride to get us places. Now we don't even have that.

How sad that families are so spread apart. Nothing beats a cup of coffee and some muffins and some family chat time.

I guess the world really changed, didn't it??

melody

I am going to try and address different sets of issues that have come up here?
1] Babies responses? Maybe it's the 'smell'? We know with animals that smells and imprinting are key to bonding issues...maybe that it a key initial primal sense? People who smell 'good' are more attractive than those with medical diseases or conditions? Think of all the 'meds' we take...Maybe they make us 'nasty' to kids? I just read a study about 'smell imprinting+ pain connections' Ill try to find it and post it.....
2] 'Empathy' regarding our diseases? Well, the lack of education does foster ignorances, by others...WE have to be day-to-day advocates to start, no ...stop the bias of 'mis-informations' that float out on the news and others sources...we have to WRITE and state how silly it is to believe that whatever we have 'IS CATCHING"....
3] and most important about empathy....How many of us have an 'Aunt Hattie' or equivalent with dementia in our midst? I have a FIL...and he is snug in a care center about 500 miles away. IS it worth it to go see him for a 'possible' five minutes of lucidity on any given day?
4] Lastly...That said, IF one has a serious and long term chronic illness..most family members cannot deal with it after about 2-3 years...attachments aside..they are already divvieing up any potential assests...you are well, written off. I say this from long experiences, a set of parents who died from chronic issues, then a bunch of siblings who are also dealing with some 'similar issues' but not necessarily related [Thanks to all you dealing with the genetics?] and well, some folks are either too self centered or indifferent to care to share or just be with those who are home-bound. It's not always a nice place to be! Yet, if one on these boards were nearby to me, and offered any help...there might be a time I sure would appreciate the offer! Even if only for some small bit of 'forbidden' coffee? Some live in big cities where 'resources' of many types for 'access' are available and not expensive. I live in a clear cut suburb, and while some 'resources' are out there...they are sporadic. Not long ago, I drove an older person back to her 'retirement community' because the 'arranged ride' well.for the ride home...evaporated! It was a cold wet day..no sense for a neuro person to stand out in in the wet and cold...when I was gonna go not far from there on my way home. It IS when we need constant Medical Appointments...and trying to be independent, that we cannot always rely on 'friends or family'...they did their ten turns! Doing more, helping others, well pay-backs come round full circle in time... Anyone who can? DO it now and soon! Your turn may come fast, and then you can find out how frustrating it IS!
Empathy? It to me is realizing that what goes around comes back...and if you haven't had it...the lack will come and bite your backside! Or kick it or whatever...SUE YOU THERE??? I think you could elaborate better here?
-j

Well I stsrted to respone and kept falling alsleep a good thing can be an exhausting thing..They dinner party wore me out..Being house bound looks
and feels pretty good after 60 people slid into a resturant,when there's 10 inches of snow over ice.There was a Toddler who bless his heart slep through
the whole thing.. Then there was a 5 month little girl very tiny,mommy had a
hard time breast feeling..Mom was a nervous mom and 40..The baby was
good about letting anybody pick her up. Usually Babies love me if i'm in my
wheelchair,probaly the movement,relaxing,fun..Well I told Dr. John just help
me over to the baby,my son was holding her,she was smilimg,laughing..Well
I was falling all over hanging on a table trying not to fall down..Well mom
relaxed and was breast feeding...No nobody noticed big sweater,then she got passed on to Dr. John,so forth,Then Bob walked by and she wiggled and
threw her arms out to Bob.Well i finally been over and thinking i'm going
to get a smile she puckered up and let out a yell. See wanted her mother.
Wow that's interesting,everybody said she's tired,my son looked surprised
(babies love me},well when they all became quiet,I think she wise enough to
know I would I would drop her or I was wearing rotten perfune.

Just kidding but a good part of the evening ,people keep coming up saying
I think it's wonderful your here and looking so well..Arn't yo tired what's
that diease you got agin bla bla...Hurt my feelings than latler John said your lucky so many people really care about you..I seen people who lay in bed and nobody comes to see them..They love you Sue,But maybe I would of liked
if they said you look great,he said that's all I heard. Huh!!No they didn't
my son walked up mom everybody thinks you look beatiful and I think you do
to..Then the baby yelled again,hear comes mom ,well we better leave and
her little arms came flying out to me,well i rocked her for a long time she smiled and went to slleep..I hurt everywhere,I'm tired,don't want to do
that for a while,but I believe babies aren't so picky,I think they sence people
no matter,what people look like,if kind they like them or there not jugemental.
Your family are jerks k,Ive got some,we all do..I'm found some very goodpeople here,and I think J.is right if we want to be treated kindly we must
help others as long as we can,if we need help maybe we will run into people
like J. Well i said I was tired so hugs to all and you can hug me anytime you
want. PS I have been told by close family menbers oh I would have come
over but I thought you would be to tired.. For them always.

Maybe we are using the wrong word?

It seems that the posts here reflect others reactions to pain as
empathy issues. Maybe it is just a lack of compassion?

This culture we live in is dominated by TV these days. Watching the Xmas
commercials is extremely unpleasant for me lately. It is the endless preoccupation with THINGS...violent video games, fancy plasma TVs, new cars, etc.

I remember when I was pregnant. There was a Maxwell house coffee commerical of a neighborhood helping a solitary elderly neighbor get a Xmas tree up (which she could not do herself). It was very touching, and even my husband was
commenting that "crying during commercials" is not going to sell much coffee.
I'd cry at the drop of a hat back then when pregnant.
There is an IAMs one of a cute puppy and little boy, with a voice over showing them both aging together...leading of course to the dog's demise.
The concept is that if you use IAMs your dog will live LONGER. Still the tears come for me.

I have been working with sick people for about 40yrs. I see other people move away physically from obviously sick patients. Then I read a book by EO Wilson, who coined "sociobiology". He believes that humans evolved with genes that contain Xenophobic traits. You see animals with this commonly. In a herd, they will sometimes shun or push out the weak, so the predators eat those and spare the healthy. You see small children stare and say "cruel" things to anyone who appears different. Crutches, canes, sometimes even eyeglasses.
It is Xenophobia that drives racial fear and racial hate. It is the holdover from evolution, to fear and avoid anything different..as a self preservation behavior.

I think alot of what we see here is really xenophobia. We think that this is a behavior that can be quickly changed with a few words in a sermon or some education. I don't think so.
It may be ingrained into the genes and will take an evolutionary time to
dwindle out. Xenophobic scenarios play out every day...everywhere.
Making laws may help instill some "fear" to not indulge in discriminatory behaviors publically, but people still have them, keep them secret in the home, and
it will take a LONG time to modify them.

What we see as lack of empathy may just be xenophobia of illness.

I got thrown off juries during one of my jury calls, just because I was using a cane then. I'll never forget the stares from the defendent and his lawyer, when doing the challenges. I guess they figured I was an old coot, ready for a fight..best get old coots off juries!

In regards to illnes alone - MRS d - yes, I think many people are afraid of what may happen to THEM - stare, run, stay away....... until it happens to them.....

Empathy overall I see as an true genuine caring for someones needs and trying to understand WHY and WHAT they may need.... there are folks petrified to go to funerals - death is part of life - just visiting a hopsital freaks others out..... etc.... but empathy sometimes is just reaching out to others in whatever way you can to say "I hear you are in pain and if I can help - let me know" - thats it... if you are lucky enought to grow up in a home where you are surrounded by people who understand this - more power - and, it should be learned as we get older, and used to be - but certainly doesnt seem to be any longer.

Our society today does allow for practically no contact - by choice or not - things like email dating, etc.. can it be more impersonal? "e" cards? (I dont even bother to open them - take two minutes and WRITE our your card).... dont want to talk to a person on the phone - screen them and just e response - again - no personal contact - no social skills needed... we're losing the ability to truly care and feel for each other.....

I remember as kid once a month visiting a local retirement home and adjoining nursing home - it scared us - the folks were old, and in the nursing home, very sick and most of the time seemed oblivious - but it was rewarding - because it was obvious we were appreicated and our visits much anticipated.... we always see on the days BEFORE the major holidays here major "stars" serving food at the homeless missions.. BUT - they still have their holiday off - and the real heroes here are the people who do this every single day... they get no credit - but they dont need the press - they know they are helping and making a difference, and thats what counts.....

I guess we could go back and forth about this forever - but lets face it - people are becoming socially retarded - chosing to not interact because it may bring up feelings they dont know how to relate to or handle.... the true heroes are those who can reach out and even for a second - touch somene else, again, with something as simple as a hug....

That back when we lived in smaller more intimate communities, and there
was no telephone, daily paper, etc..TV people relied on each other for support and it was natural. We still see this in the community we live in during the
summers-- 500 residents total over a large area.

She said now in her therapy, she sees more professionals of both sexes, who
do not get married, and live alone. I saw this in North Carolina, for example and mentioned it to her. The cars on the freeway there specifically at Reasearch Triangle Park, were all driven by single people. (in the outskirts this changes). So were the subdivisions.

So today we are more independent and get help over the phone, online and watch TV for news etc. So we have less needs than folks did 100yrs ago. I think this tends to isolate people and compartmentalize feelings. I have also noticed that people won't easily talk to you if you are in a long line at the store. I get them going every time..and then they typically do relax. It is kind of odd, really. Why not talk about something interesting and make the time pass better? How simple, but nope...they are typically in some invisible bubble!

Where we live in a changing very upscale neighborhood (which was not always this extreme) --people don't even go OUTSIDE! They flick open their garage door opener and go into the "cave" of the garage and close up after themselves. After most of our neighbors of long ago moved out, there are people now I have NEVER seen living in many houses. We don't have block parties anymore, and these newcomers are very unpleasant and trendy. I don't miss them at all. Once a new gal stopped in her car while I was working on the yard, and asked me..."how much do these folks pay you to keep this garden?" I said I do it myself! She was stunned. And we are one of the very few with flowers etc in front publicly.

I raised my son very carefully. I didn't want him to have doctor phobias, be afraid of hospitals etc. When he was 4 he had ENT surgery, and they provided a walk thru to desensitize the kids...it was called Surgical Safari. He did very well, no episodes or meltdowns then or when he had his surgery. He was nice at the doctors, all the time, even for his glasses. Then one day when he was out of high school he mentioned casually that he would freak if he ever had to go the ER or whatever...he is terrified of doctors! WHOA--- where did THAT come from? Even taking his pet cats to the vet stresses him out. How did that happen? I guess it was there all along? No matter how casual and non anxious I was with him, etc. ( are these feelings from the 15 days he was in the hospital after being born? does he somehow have that fear squirreled away?)

So people are complex... no simple answers for most things!