Spinal Disorders & Back Pain For discussion of all spinal cord injuries, spinal issues, back-related pain or problems.

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Old 01-06-2007, 12:09 AM #1
painfree painfree is offline
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Originally Posted by jonnyrocket View Post
Hello painfree - quick question - do you know who publishes Travell & Simons ?Is it a harcover or in a journal. I used to work for Marcel Dekker, an STM ( science, technology and medical publisher) and have retained contacts under their new ownership. Just curious...thank you again for your info.
Also if there are other factors I can tell you please ask. You're a wealth of info and the more you have, the narrower the focus. I'm in good shape otherwise, at correct bmi for my height, have or had been a disciplined exerciser for over twenty years daily, am now 47, trouble started at 41. I've had injections over the years since surgery but the leg pain never really abated. Again, it always hurts but the more I am on my legs, the longer the day and especially the more strenuous the activity, the worse it gets to the point that I'm noticeably limping and favoring the other one. I also get these night things - out of a sound sleep I wake up in sever pain due to that area of my lateral calf hardening like a rock ! My big toe goes up, and the metatarsals ( I think thats what they are, the lines you can follow on the top of your foot to each toe, know what I mean ? ) they about seem ready to bust out of my skin. You can't rub it out like a normal nighttime charley horse. I have to get out of bed and put all my weight on that foot and torque my foot ,, like twist my foot to the right while trying to move my calf area to the right. Best I can describe it is when it is over its like a light switch was flipped - i.e., there is no gradual abateing, no easing off until it's normal again. It simply releases. I usually exhale a sigh of relief at that point as it is that intense while in the throes of it, and that significant when it lets go. The do said its like that nerve is having a seizure. That while I am sleeping there is inappropriate activity to that nerve root and my lateral calf there has a seizure. I am on lyrica but I don't like the side effects, kind of an aidible buzzing feeling I get into the next day.
On the trigger point issue, I am under the impression the problem originates in my lumbar region, the site of my operations and scar tissue, where the nerve root controlling that area of my lateral calf is, not in the calf perse. Is that correct ? So trigger point therapy takes place in the point of origin ? Due to the prior operations and mess thats there now, how safe is it to have needles back there ? My previous injections were of course done with xray in the o.r. while mildly sedated but aware so I could tell them where I felt it. As many here can attest I am sure, its not an overly pleasant experience. How does a trigger point injection differ in application ?
Sorry to burden you with so much info - there's more but I don't want you to hate me ! - but you offerred so much material already I thought it'd be okay to pick your brain some more.
You and Shelley can email me at jlevine3@hvc.rr.com if you'd rather.....
Thanks again and again.
Take a look at amazon at this link (Publisher Lippincott Williams & Wilkins; 2nd, 2 Volume Set edition (January 1999) ):

http://www.amazon.com/Travell-Simons.../dp/0683307711

Every case is unique. The scar tissue at the L5-S1 is an influence and may be the root cause of your pain but you can trick and rest this dysfunctional loop of pain.

Trigger point injection directly into the tibialis anterior and peronial muscles may benefit your discomfort. There are many ways to release a myofascial trigger point, injections being one.

I use my hands (finger pressure) followed by Specific stretch and a home stretch program to facilitate the release.

You can also use a spray and stretch or ice release method. You can Google the spray and stretch technique.

"exerciser for over twenty years daily"
If you exercise or take the myotonic group(s) beyond their current range of motion before the trigger point(s) are released then you may be doing more damage then good.

A long muscle is a strong muscle! Get the muscle long then exercise.

"like twist my foot to the right while trying to move my calf area to the right. Best I can describe it is when it is over its like a light switch was flipped - i.e., there is no gradual abating, no easing off until it's normal again. It simply releases. I usually exhale a sigh of relief ..."

This is a stretch twisting to the right of the peronial muscle.

Individual muscle treatment is beneficial, but if you want lasting benefits the whole functional myotonic(muscle) group must be addressed along with the the associated fascial (connective tissue) must be addressed.

Take a look at Anatomy Trains -(Fascia Lines) by Tom Myers at this link:

http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Trains...e=UTF8&s=books.

I would also look at the whole body posture - is one leg longer then the other, hemi pelvis, compensatory scoliosis... to identify any perpetuating factors and suggest corrections.

I would also look at ergonomics work posture, sleeping position, type of bed, diet, what you eat drink, sups... and address those issues for lasting benefit.

Last edited by painfree; 01-07-2007 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 01-10-2007, 05:34 AM #2
jonnyrocket jonnyrocket is offline
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All I can say is DAMN ! Your info is so beneficial you should charge for it !
Where do your practice again ? I looked at the links you gave me and indeed learned, which is always a good thing. I see the doc on monday and won't he be surprised when I start talking. Over the years he has realized I do my homework whenever he proposes a new injection or new med and we discuss it pretty thoroughly. He's one of the few docs I know who actually appreciates an informed and intelligent patient, so this will be a good visit.
Thank you greatly for taking all the time you have to answer my questions and provide such important and valuable information.
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Old 01-10-2007, 05:38 AM #3
jonnyrocket jonnyrocket is offline
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jonnyrocket jonnyrocket is offline
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Default Painfree - amessage to you below

just a bump sorry
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Old 02-13-2007, 04:12 PM #4
wasabi wasabi is offline
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I really can't say that I know anything about what's going on with your pain. But there are a couple of supplements that could possibly be helpful. Nattokinase is capable of dissolving fibrin - a major component of scar tissue. The product I use, which contains nattokinase is called Neprinol. It is pretty expensive but I think worth trying. The other supplement is Magnesium Taurate by Cardiovascular Research. It is one of the best forms of magnesium to ingest. It is relatively inexpensive. Muscles require calcium to contract; muscles require magnesium to relax. Magnesium is also important for nerve health.

I agree that painfree has given you some very good information. Even if the primary injury to your nerves is occuring near your spine, anything you can do to keep from stressing it further, anywhere along its length (eg. trigger point therapy to release peroneal nerve entrapment, if that's part of what's going on) will improve its overall health and likely help lessen your pain.
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