......orrr Brownies? Not sure the 'politically correct' way to go here but I'm MORE than willing to 'pass that peace pipe'..........obviously I'm not current with how the legal route works......I 'think' the cancer doctor I work for can prescribe 'Marinol', which I'm assuming is a pill ?
I think Colorado has these little 'apothecary-type' places in which you can literally walk up to a window and get some? Mark? Can you weigh in on this, from that Mountain you reside upon??

But......for legal reasons.........and fear of 'lurking' medication-scouts....I mayyyy have been around it in my earlier years...

...but i never inhaled

......and Tom,......I will love to respond to your post and I will....but to be quite frank, I'm a bit choked up and teary-eyed from your response to mine....so....I will collect myself and be back later.....

"Thank You" is all I can seem to come up with at the present moment

Rae

Thank you, Rae, for your insightful, moving, care giving as only you can.... post. We all can use a spur to the other meadow to see whether life there is exactly the same, or whether different perspective does bring along new thought patterns, new observations, another look at the meaning our life brings to others.

In my talk this week, I did go through the suicidal ideation, the thoughts about ending pain for self and family, only to be brought to the realization that ending one pain sets another in motion. I rather like David's stone in the ocean. Gives one much about which to think..... whom do I affect with my actions?

As for Colorado, yes there are apothecaries which under regulation do dispense medically prescribed marijuana. I understand even Chiros legitimately write for the products. That tends to bring a certain offense to the MD community, of which I have a good many neighbors. I will not try the stuff. Avoided it during college, and see no reason to take it up now.

Yep, you brought goodness to light in your post Rae,
Thank you,
Mark56

Hello, Addy: Thank you so much for your kind words and wishes. It is people like you who make this site the wonderful refuge that it is.

I would love to write about my trials; in fact, I love to write about them all ready, this moment, to you. Ideas constantly shape up inside me about the subject of suicide: I mentioned one -- a group of people discussing/arguing/agreeing about 9/11; as the story unfolds, the viewer or reader slowly becomes aware that the people died in the Twin Towers. Another idea: you probably know about "The Lost Weekend" (Ray Milland), a mesmerizing movie about an alcoholic. To my knowledge, a suicide equivalent has never been done. I'm not sure it would change the way the general public thinks about suicide; however, it definitely would give them a new pair of glasses.

The hurdle for me and for others on this site who would like to start serious creative writing projects: the simple reality is that to go anywhere, you MUST have a literary agent. Not just any agent, either: the word is that 20% of the agents do 80% of the contracts. Understandably, the agents who are in the 20% don't want anything to do with a somebody like me, who is a complete unknown. "Understandably," because first novels and screenplays by unknowns typically don't sell; the agent expects to turn a profit later, by having clients who are starting their careers and will build something up. At age 66, I am a bad bet for them. I had better add, I don't personally know anybody in the business. Not one.

I go into this, Addy, because ... apart from the compelling and imaginative comments others have shared on this thread, please look at the Artistic Expressions in this Survivors of Suicide forum. Astounding!! Over 20,000 hits!!! No need to dish out the usual platitudes about suicide and creativity ... 'Nuff said.

I hope that all of you who want to pursue creative writing projects and who are in a better situation than I am, will hear my words, take advantage of them -- then go for it!! I KNOW you are out there; SOS shows it. Nobody can tell anybody otherwise.

Bestest to you, Addy. Keep doin' what you're doin'.

Tom

I just heard this author interviewed on NPR and am looking forward to reading his new book Freedom...http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=129799680

Maybe I related to his anger at his friends suicide.

Have you read anything by him Tom?

Hello, Alffe: Thanks for your latest contribution.

No, I haven't read anything by Franzen. I always want to ask such people: how did you get your start? Did your family know somebody? Is your brother an agent? Now, too often, that's a BBBIGGGG elephant in the room. The good old days, when you could send a manuscript directly to Random House, are long gone.

Yes, Franzen's comment about his anger over his friend's suicide undoubtedly caught your attention. I don't know if Franzen goes into suicide in any of his works, but I know of a novelist who did: Dostoevsky. I'm reading "The Possessed" right now, about to finish it. It's a great work; it runs on all 4 cylinders. Which calls for an explanation...

The psychoanalyst Carl Jung noted that humans function in 4 ways: thinking, feeling, sensation and intuition. Too often, what we see and read is a few cylinders short. I can't watch most recent movies, for example: they are too limited to one function -- sensation. That outcome is to be expected in that most movies are made for male teenagers, who are sensation-oriented. Anyway, for me they can't pass; they sputter, stall, can't make it up hills.

The same is true for me, unfortunately, for most contemporary American novels. I can't get into them. Which is not to say they are "bad." Montesquieu observed that humans are sensitive beings more than rational ones (which means "homo sapiens" is misnamed. Sorry about that). Example: laboratory research shows that the music you hear when you are 14 becomes the music of your life. Whether the music is "good" or "bad" has nothing whatsoever to do with that outcome; rather, it is due to neurological developments in the brain (see Daniel Levitin, "The Is Your Brain on Music"). Result: disputes all over the Internet over which version of a song, say "Since I Don't Have You," by The Skyliners or Guns N' Roses, is "better" are as much fun as they are a waste of time. The answer depends on where you were and what you were doing at a certain time in your life. Same goes for movies, books, on down the line. Including suicide.

O.K., I give up. Which one is better, "Gone With The Wind" or "Wizard of Oz"? Who was a better novelist, Hemingway or Steinbeck? A Ford or a Chevy? A dog or a cat? To be or not to be? But, as David would say, I digress ...

Tom

LOL..but you digress in a good way! And I knew that you and David would have much in common.

Songs at 14?? Could it have been Eddy Arnold singing Make The World Go Away? Wizard of Oz definately! My favorite Dostoyevsky book is The Idiot. And I am curious if you have read Emile Durkheim's "take" on suicide?

Mr Alffe and I had a long, very negative conversation over lunch today about the state of the world and our countries place in it. About how WAR used to be such a good thing, a common bond between our citizens,
about how youth today feels so entitled to everything and wanting instant gratification. All the wrong things seem to be important today.

That is "old fart" thinking but I believe in calling a spade, a....fork?

....I must say.....I can clearly see what a true 'simpleton' I really am....., as 99% of this recent discussion is going straight over my head
But! I WILL say this! .......since the Wizard of Oz was recently brought up and in my desperate attempt to somehow 'fit' in to this....... I actually reside very near the 'Land of Oz'.....aka "TotoLand"...... and all I know for fact is......that witch from the West was a BAAAD one...... AND those little people .....(Munchkins?) really do exist !
AND! there really ARE yellow bricks in part of my neighborhood!

Hey, Tom -
Not to change the course of this discussion, but something you shared earlier has really left me hanging in the balance here and I wondered if you'd elaborate a tad more on it.....
Regarding that motorcylce mishap you experienced when your kickstand got stuck and you were unable to make that left turn........as you were getting nearer to that bridge and those last fleeting thoughts that raced thru your mind as you helplessly headed into what appeared to be your imminent certain death......
How did it play out? Obviously you are still here (thank God!)......
Were you hurt from the accident? Did you actually hit the bridge?

Very curious......

Thank you
Rae

oh my dear God... I just wrote the longest response ... and in the twink of a slipped finger, I lost all that was written...

darn new laptop!

Tom ... consider this thread and this brilliant forum an opportunity to be an author amongst us ... I am your agent and this is your book! I will continue to look forward to reading your posts.

Alffee ... I have always wished for a mate that could sit across the table from me like Mr. Alffee.... I have met many Mr. Alffees and two developed into mating ...but not in longevity... and actual life-changing heartbreak for me. The longevity was with a superficial guy's guy (and my only marriage).

I digress...

and Rae , o dear, I absolutely adore your since of wit and humour!

~~~~~~~

The songs that have stayed with me since age 14 are: WILD THING (which I didn't like back then - it scared me for some reason) and Joni Mitchell's BIG YELLOW TAXI ("paved paradise, put up a parking lot... " ... which came out again in a newer/same story version when I had teenage sons!) ... definitely a song that looked into the future and told a story I was concerned about... and the other song: WAR what is it good for absolutely nothin'

ok... I think I've digressed enough...

Addy

Hello, Rae: Thanks for your latest of the latest of the ...

In a word, what happened was we hit the curb, which changed the angle of the motorcycle, which meant we flew off onto the concrete sidewalk running along the bridge. TERRIBLE scrape burns on my arms; I still remember them 50 years later. They burned and burned for a week -- well named. Haven't been on a motorcycle since then.

My dad much later told me he had the same reaction during World War II. He was stationed in England; the airplane he was in took off and ... didn't go high enough fast enough. He saw trees coming up. "Well -- that's it ... we're all finished. The end." Suddenly the airplane moved up and they cleared the trees -- just barely. The thing in both cases was, there was absolutely nothing to be done. Nothing. You are a spectator -- you watch the events as you would a movie. I'm sure some of the people in 9/11 felt that way; others did not.

Maybe, there were a few yellow bricks out there. Tender Mercies.

Bestest,

Tom

Hello, Alffe:

LOl -- call a spade a fork! Or a fork truck, why not?

Yes, "All the wrong things seem to be important today." So, what is important?

Here's what really counts. Check out this web site: http://www.chuckjones.com/studios/warner.php. I made the earth-shattering discovery that your avatar has a name: Michigan J. Frog. You have solid credentials: the Library of Congress called One Froggy Evening "culturally significant." Spielberg called it the "Citizen Kane of animated movies." So much for Rosebud...

I have read excerpts from Durkheim's pioneering work on suicide. After all these posts and my own attempt, I guess I'd better get into it on a serious basis. Marcel Mauss, an anthropologist, was related to Durkheim. There was a lot of creative work being done back then for the pure love of what they were doing. Mauss' signature phrase: "Society always pays itself in the counterfeit money of its dreams." I think part of the explanation of suicide lies therein. Anyway, war, youth, instant gratification: see what Mr. Alffe thinks of that one. Let us know...

Bestest,

Tom