It's the action, not the fruit of the action, that's important. You have to
do the right thing. It may not be in your power, may not be in your time, that there'll be any fruit. But that doesn' mean you stop doing the right
thing. You may never know what results come from your action. But if you do nothing, there will be no result. --Gandhi

But I know that you know.....

A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Gandhi

David

Tomorrow waits with its wondrous capacity for goodness and surprise.
We must believe in tomorrow and give it its chance.
-LaVyrie Spencer

In the midst of all circumstances, God's grace, peace, and joy are there.
The tears will come, the pressures will be felt....
But there is a new dimension, a new direction, and a new power in life to face the circumstances in which you live.
-Billy Graham


Hugs for the room....especially David.

'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth." Revelation 3:16

Tom

Revelation 3:15-16



Christ admits the truth about them. "I know your works [obedience and service], that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot" (Revelation 3:15). Why does He wish this? Because if they were either cold or hot, they would be useful to Him. Lukewarm Christians send confusing messages. In this state, being useless to Him, He spews them out of His mouth. All the messages to these seven churches highlight works because they are evidence of how Christians conduct their relationships with God. Works reveal the heart. They are a gauge of one's witness and spiritual state.

Metaphorically, what does lukewarmness signify here? To define it to this point, a rough definition might be "that which gives no refreshment, or that which has neither the cleansing properties of hot water nor the refreshing properties of cold." Modern synonyms of the word "lukewarm" give illuminating insights into its use in this letter: lacking ardor, enthusiasm or conviction; moderate; mild; unemotional; halfhearted; hesitant; indecisive; irresolute; uncertain; uncommitted; unresponsive; indifferent; impassive; languid; phlegmatic; apathetic; nonchalant; lackadaisical.

Recall the hallmarks of Babylon: pride, self-glorification, reliance on wealth, satiety, complacency, avoidance of suffering. Although he has the abilities and resources to be a great witness, the Laodicean is complacent, self-satisfied, bored with or indifferent to the real issues of life. For a Christian, the real issues are faith in Christ and our Christian responsibility. And to do the work Christ has called us to, our loyalty and devotion must be to Him, first and foremost!

A problem arises, however, in "spotting" a Laodicean—these qualities do not necessarily show on the outside. Why? Remember Christ describes a spiritual condition. This is a matter of the heart. What does He want to see in him? He wants the Laodicean to get off the fence—to be one way or the other, cold or hot. Conversely, the Laodicean judges that he is balanced, right in the middle. But his concept of balance is skewed. Why will he not move off the middle? He feels he has it good there! If he moves left or right, he fears that he will suffer! Thus, he has no desire to move.

Then what happens? The Laodicean must compromise. This is interesting in light of what the history books record. Ancient Laodicea's main line of defense was conciliation and compromise! Why? Again, the answer lies in the city's inadequate water supply, making it very susceptible to the siege of an invading army. By having its tenuous water supply cut off, the city was at the mercy of its attacker. With no water, it could hold out for only a short while. The Laodicean solution? They became masters of appeasement, accommodation, conciliation, and diplomacy. Peace at any cost! How did they appease? They bought their enemies off! Laodicea used its wealth to conciliate and compromise.

Christ uses the attitude of the surrounding environment to illustrate that those in the church of Laodicea are affected by the attitudes of the world. Without even realizing it, they behave exactly like their unconverted neighbors. They are worldly. Though they are not out on the streets robbing banks, raping, looting, murdering, mugging old grandmothers, or abusing children, in their hearts they have the same general approach to life as Babylon has. Theologically, spiritually, they hold the same values as Babylon, proved by their works. Spiritually, they become very adept in avoiding the sacrifices that might be necessary to overcome and grow in character, wisdom, and understanding. In other words, they are skilled in appeasing Satan and their own consciences.

Christ says He will spew, or vomit, the Laodicean from His mouth! That is how He views this attitude of compromise with principles, ideals, standards, and truth!

Some may expect Laodiceans to be lazy, but on the contrary they are often workaholics. Satan has foisted this false concept of Laodiceanism onto the church. One cannot become "rich and increased with goods" by being lazy! Their problem is a faulty setting of priorities. They are very vigorous people, but they are vigorous in areas that fail miserably to impress their Judge, Christ. Vigorous in conducting business and other carnal affairs, they are lackadaisical in pursuing the beauty of holiness, which is their calling. They are not vigorous or zealous in maintaining their prayer life with God or in studying. They are not energetic in making the sacrifices necessary to love their brethren or in developing their relationships with others. Nor are they enthusiastic about guarding the standards and principles of God. By erring in the setting of priorities, they victimize themselves.

Over the last fifteen years of his life, Herbert Armstrong expressed deep concern about the church becoming Laodicean. Because of the plethora of activities this world offers, he saw that ultimately they distract us, cause us to set wrong priorities, and keep us from putting our time, energy, and vigor into godly things. He often cited Daniel 12:4 as a telltale sign of the last days: "Seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase." Are we busy in this age? Satan is a slick strategist, and he really deceives anyone who allows himself to believe that busyness and prosperity are signs of righteousness.


John W. Ritenbaugh
The World, the Church and Laodiceanism



Tom your explanation would be greatly recieved.................


David........

Hello, David: Wow, what a post! Ritenbaugh filled in a number of missing pages not just for me but I'm sure for other readers as well.

My explanation runs counter to everything we are taught in grade school and beyond. And what we are taught comes from Aristotle: "moderation and the mean are always best." ("Politics," Book IV). Warm water it is, then. True enough on numerous, but not all, instances. In fact, there is a certain point at which the cherished, if not sacred, Golden Mean becomes de-meaning...

Christ is one of the few who challenged the Golden Mean at the be-all and end-all. An exception indeed: you can search high and low and still not find anybody who is of a similar mind. Another exception to the rule: Victor Hugo ("Les Miserables"):

"There is for everything a theory that proclaims itself to be 'common sense'…it offers mediation between the true and the false; an explanation; a warning, and a somewhat conceited attenuation which, because it is a mixture of blame and excuse, believes itself to be wisdom and which is usually only pedantry. An entire political school, called the golden mean, came out of it. Between cold water and hot water, it is warm water. This avaricious school, which is all surface, sits on the throne of a demi-science, and with its false profundity and without going into causes, dissects the effects of the movements of public affairs." (My translation).

Aristotle's word "always," then, is at best dubious. Compromise, etc., are "always" good? Enter the Founding Fathers. They maintained a healthy dialogue concerning radical change versus incremental reforms. Alexander Hamilton made the following argument against small reforms -- compromises, if you will -- in his discussion of the Articles of Confederation, the system Hamilton and his colleagues wanted to abolish and replace with their Constitution of The United States:

"It must be by this time evident to all men of reflection, who are either free from erroneous prepossessions, or can divest themselves of them, that it is a system so radically vicious and unsound as to admit not of amendment but by an entire change in its leading features and characters." ("Federalist Paper 22").

Entire change ... doesn't sound compromising to me. The bottom line: in certain circumstances, the Golden Mean can be "mean" indeed. I know, I know, we all learn about The Great Compromise in grade school. But when does The Great Compromise in fact turn out to be a Compromise of Greatness?

Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle. And so we must straighten our backs and work for our freedom. A man can't ride you unless your back is bent.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

quote
Entire change ... doesn't sound compromising to me. The bottom line: in certain circumstances, the Golden Mean can be "mean" indeed. I know, I know, we all learn about The Great Compromise in grade school. But when does The Great Compromise in fact turn out to be a Compromise of Greatness? end quote

Tom

i will be honest i am very confused by the above.............

I have lived my current and previous employment [total 18 years] with a value of.........NEVER PUT YOURSELF IN A COMPROMISING SITUATION.........In the hope no one can hold me accountable... at 46 years old.....i;m mindful of what i say and do......it can be interpreted and misinterpreted............

CHANGE is an inner thing...........instigated often by external influences............but only truly accepted by oneself. If given permission by oneself.................CHANGE IS THE ONLY ANSWER. [Evolution]

To sum up..........am i lukewarm water .............because my initial stance is one thing..............then i compromise with another persons view.....after hearing their opinion and seeing their feelings on a particular issue...........

Learning is about adapting listening and deciding change.... in my humble opinion.......

because I choose to compromise...........in your personal choice to end your life Tom.........where my intial reaction was to prevent your action..............
have i become distastefully lukewarm...........and something to be spewed out in disgust................am i now perched on a fence......with both legs swaying on either side of the suicide debate..............have i compromised myself........my own views..........

NO......................i have witnessed a debate and chosen to hear a wind of change........orchestrated by you the composer: of your own Symphony ........................the begining...the middle the end....[is there a fourth part to your symphony? you nor I will ever know.

but whilst the music plays out Tom...........hum along..and occassional dance to the music of your life....in mind if not in body.

If i'm lukewarm.........i allowed that change.

David

Hello, David:

Thanks for yours. In response, I would say I tried to measure my words. Note carefully that I said, or implied, that warm water was in fact called for IN NUMEROUS, BUT NOT ALL, INSTANCES. And again, I claimed that there is a CERTAIN POINT at which the Golden Mean becomes de-meaning. Thus, that Mean is not in and of itself de-meaning. Once more, IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES the Golden Mean can be "mean." And so, I am not against compromise or reform per se; I AM saying there are circumstances when something else is called for. Do you look back over your life and think that there were times when you "gave in" when you should have said something, rebelled? And did you rebel at others when you should have compromised? I sure do. So it goes.

What I disagree with is Aristotle's idea that the mean is ALWAYS the best.

Bestest, Tom

Hi Tom... I think we all remember times when we made a choice to do something different. My choices are based on my life's experiences and my personal interpretations to that point in time. When I look back at my life I recognize that I did the best I could with the tools I had. I do not look back with regret. I look back and applaud how far I have come to be where I am today!

My question to you (anyone?) - do you have regret?

Addy: Me thinks thou havest therein a new thread: "Any Regrets?"

Tom