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Thoracic Outlet Syndrome Thoracic Outlet Syndrome/Brachial Plexopathy. In Memory Of DeAnne Marie. |
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08-07-2011, 04:37 AM | #1 | ||
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A Dr. Stoxen from the Chicago area gave a presentation on TOS in 2004, which I found interesting. *edit* if you search Google you will find it with these search terms:
vimeo stoxen thoracic outlet syndrome I found these things especially interesting: -- His comments on posture were spot on for me. -- He points out that the first rib has no muscles that can pull it down, so it needs to be adjusted manually/externally. -- He advises against certain neck stretches due to their pulling on the first rib. Interestingly, my chiro in Los Angeles warned me against the same thing. -- He claims a high success rate with non-surgical treatment. In addition to sharing this with you, I'm interested to know what your thoughts are on the contents of the presentation? This is my first post btw. I've had mild TOS symptoms for years--without knowing what TOS was or what was going on--and then it "blew up" in early July. I've just started chiro and Egoscue exercises, and plan to add trigger point self therapy soon. Last edited by Koala77; 08-07-2011 at 05:08 AM. Reason: NT guidelines |
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08-07-2011, 02:33 PM | #2 | ||
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I also found this presentation very interesting and revealing. I am convinced that in many, many cases the TOS has its origin in a bad posture, forward head and shoulders (like in my case ) Also the facts stated in the presentation challenge many physical treatments I have undergone. The most bewildering statement is that you should do no stretching of the neck, something which is done by almost every physiotherapist (at least here in Germany ).
Yesterday I started the Sharon-Butler-selfcare program and I have to admit that I am totally confused now. Will this program help me or will it totally ruin my neck and cause more pain? The physio says that my first rib is fine, can I trust her? What do you think? KR Monica |
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08-07-2011, 03:25 PM | #3 | |||
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I think we need to define stretching..
There is the often/usual PT way of push thru it no matter how you feel after... and the gentle stretching mentioned by Sharon Butler. "just a tiny hint of a sensation" It is the smallest of a stretch sensation, and if that is too much after- or a day later - then you do even less of it when the discomfort is gone. You want to aim for no added discomfort from her program, and then move forward slowly & gently to the next step. I had to read her program quite a few times for it all to sink in about the fascia and how it reacts & is involved. And I have forgotten much but a few parts of it are stuck in my head.
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08-07-2011, 05:57 PM | #4 | ||
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Regarding the Butler stretches, I would like to hear if people have used them to resolve their TOS or at least get a significant reduction in symptoms (> 50%?). Maybe I should ask that in a separate thread.
The Pete Egoscue material is well reviewed at Amazon, which gave me the confidence to try it. I'm only a week in, but have already seen improvement. These *do* involve stretches, but not the side neck stretches that the two chiros (Stoxen and my local) advise against. Also, I've been reading "The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook: Second Edition" which doesn't advise against stretching so much as it advises against stretching before releasing trigger points. I'm paraphrasing here, but the concern seemed to be that muscles that were chronically tight due to trigger points would not benefit (much) from normal stretching. I can't comment on the results, because I haven't started yet. And of course we're all a bit different so what works for one might not work for others. All we can do is share, experiment and seek out a solution. |
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08-09-2011, 03:24 AM | #5 | ||
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I also would be very much interested in this question since I have started the program last week. The shoulder circling is painful no matter how far I raise the shoulders. Is this ok? I do it very gentle, but still it hurts but I am sure I cannot just skip this excercise. We could start another thread on this if there does not exist one already, if you want to. KR Monica |
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08-09-2011, 03:39 AM | #6 | ||
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I tried the "moving version" of Chinese Chi Kung / Qigong and had the exact same problems with the shoulder. Plus I was worried that all the motion would add to any inflammation in the thoracic region. For that reason, I switched to the "static version" called Zhan Zhuang.
If you want to start a new thread for fresh discussion on people's results for the Butler stretches, feel free! |
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08-11-2011, 12:15 PM | #7 | |||
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and she says often to modify any of the moves so that you can do it - don't fore or push thru pain as it sets you back.
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08-07-2011, 08:46 PM | #8 | ||
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08-07-2011, 09:27 PM | #9 | ||
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If I recall correctly, it was any stretch of the scalene muscles because they are attached to the first rib. The concern is that the first rib will be pulled further higher and reduce the space between the collar bone and the rib.
If you do a Google image search on "scalene" you will see which muscles these are and what they attach to. You can also watch the video. Also there is a text transcript below the video. It includes this: Quote:
On the other hand, the physical therapy (PT) people seem to recommend stretching those muscles in order to loosen them. I am neither a chiro nor a PT and am only sharing what I've been hearing. Since I'm trying a chiro and he stated that side neck stretches were off limits, I'm following that course of advice. Best regards. |
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08-07-2011, 09:59 PM | #10 | ||
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When i strech the scalene i Put my thumb on the first rib and press down on it and look the other way, i can actually feel the first rib and its not moving. Also if i press down hard enough on my first rib i can feel it lower very slighty, after all my PT sessions he has done a good job loosening up the first rib thats why this all possible. So im wondering now, do i continue with the scalene streches or not? |
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