I think both Mark and mhr4 are correct in their own ways.

At one point facts lead to a decision or belief. I tend to post facts when I post mostly on the subject of supplements. But at times,
I enter the "belief" point of view when I have personal experience.

Here is an official monograph on 5-HTP, which comes from one of the sources that I respect:
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/5...han-000283.htm

It contains a list of other drugs that may interact with 5-HTP at the end. It also contains the typical warnings that appear on many supplement advice sites, which may or may not happen.

To get a clearer picture as to why 5-HTP is more potent, here are the pathways that tryptophan is involved with:
http://www.genome.jp/kegg/pathway/map/map00380.html

Tryptophan is involved in many reactions. Each rectangle is an enzyme that converts the various substance in all directions from tryptophan. Notice that 5-HTP has a much more limited function.
One of the paths 5-HTP may take is the kyneurine pathway:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kynurenine_pathway
This synthesizes niacin in the body, which is a good thing.
It also contributes to a negative inflammatory pathway which is still being investigated. Tryptophan but not 5-HTP eventually may be used by the body to make Acetyl CoA which is very important (lower left).

This graph is very complex and one does not need to understand it all...but it illustrates where things happen, and which substrates are used.

The way I look at 5-HTP is that it is more of a "drug" than supplement because its actions are more limited. At this time our knowledge of brain biochemistry is really limited, and we are finding that genetic differences between people determine how they respond to drugs, and also may need more or less of a certain nutrient. 5-HTP has potential to cause harm, but I have not read that it lives up to this potential commonly unless misused or used with other certain drugs. When 5-HTP came out it was ferociously expensive... up to $60 for a month's supply. It has come down since then. Tryptophan today is also expensive, and in some ways, this high price limits the potential for taking too much by most people. If one is going to use tryptophan modestly, I see no potential dangers. There is significant tryptophan in egg whites for example and it is present in high amounts in whey protein. When you get above 2grams a day, then supervision by a doctor is wise. Taking tryptophan ALONE may allow it to cross the BBB (blood brain barrier) more effectively so really high doses may not be needed for most people.

I'd also make sure when deciding to use 5-HTP you consult your doctor because of the drug interaction potential.

Serotonin syndrome really only became recognized with the introduction of SSRI drugs. These are far more likely when misused to cause serotonin syndrome. They even interact with DM (dextromethorphan) an OTC cough suppressant. The most common interaction is SSRI + migraine triptan use. But doctors still give these together. This is something that bothers me tremendously!

thanks to mrsD for the balanced reply

I have quoted the original post here, as we would appreciate please if the topic could now stay on track. If members disagree with one another to the point where it becomes a back and forth that really doesnt advance the discussion, but instead detracts from the useful information, then we request that those members disagree politely! in PM and let the discussion here move forward.

I have removed 2 posts and hope the discussion can now return to mutual exchange of information without argument

thanks

Dear Kate....

After rereading your post here, I have a question for you.
Was the Treximet your FIRST migraine drug composed of a triptan?

Treximet is a fixed combo of Imitrex (high dose) and naproxen.
If you are just started on this, 100mg is a high dose and you should not be feeling "like you are having a heart attack".

Both drugs are available separately, and you could be started at a lower dose that might still be effective. Imitrex starts at 25mg.
Naproxen is OTC and you could take it that way if your doctor wants both.
This product was designed to keep money coming in for Glaxo...so when Imitrex went generic, they'd still be having Treximet making money for them. It is really meant for people who are used to high dose Imitrex.

Are your migraines on the right side of your head? That would be the side that affects the left side of your body.

Thank you Chemar, I couldn't agree more. My intention here is to only provide members with information, and not to debate another member on trivial matters. My apologies if I have become a distraction. I will make a concerted effort to avoid this in the future.

Hey Kate,

If you are suffering from migraines, which I just picked up on from re-reading your original post, there is an alternative form of neurofeedback that was developed to help people who suffer from migraines. It is called pIR homoencephalography (HEG) biofeedback. It was developed by Jeffery Carmen Phd and has actually been used in rehabilitation for brain injuries. Essentially, it measures metabolic activity in the pre-frontal cortex (the forhead) by measuring the temperature in that area. The idea behind it is that increased temperature leads to metabolic activity, which leads to increases in blood flow, which leads to increases in angio genesis, which leads to increased blood perfusion to that area. Since this is the executive decision area of our brains, it also increases these skills in people who use it.
It helps people who suffer from migraines because of the increase in blood flow that is seen with its use. There has been some research done on it as well.

I personally use it and find it very helpful. My dad, who has suffered from migraines for years, used it over the summer and found that it completely eliminated his minor migraines and substantially reduced the severity of major migraines. He said that he thinks it would have completely eliminated all of his migraines if he would have been able to continue using it.

Here is the developers website: http://www.stopmymigraine.com/
You can purchase it here: http://www.brain-trainer.com/

There is also a variant to pIR called nIR. It does essentially the same thing. Although, it has been researched more for brain injuries than nIR. It measures the difference between oxygenated and deoxygenated blood in the prefrontal cortex. So, you try and increase the ratio of the oxy/deoxy blood to that area.

Thanks Chemar

Kate you need to just relax and take things easy.

Donna

Hi Mrs. D,

Treximet is the only migraine drug I've been on since this whole thing started. It has 85mg of Sumatriptan and 500mg Naproxen Sodium. The neurologist said that the heart attack feeling is a tissue reaction to the medication and wasn't harmful. I barely feel it or notice it anymore. It helps my migraines so much, I would be afraid to switch to anything else. Maybe I will ask my neuro if I could step it down? I'm not sure. Thanks for that info though, I didn't even look at the drug to see what it was composed of. Maybe I'm too trusting to my neuro.

My migraines are in my neck and go up the back of my head on both sides all the way around to the front and sides.


MRH4,

I took a biofeedback class in college that was really helpful for me then. I'm going to ask my doc about it. I also want to try neuro-psychological testing. Thanks for the info!



I'm trying to get as much rest as I can and trying not to be involved in stressful situations. My sister's wedding is Saturday, and I'm the maid of honor.... so I'm trying to prepare myself. My neuro said I can take 2 Nuvigil spaced apart during the day to help battle the fatigue if I need it on that day. Please pray for me you guys!

I'm really happy to say that I have an amazing husband who lets me get as much rest as I can, so the week after will be a great recovery time. I'm going to try and leave the wedding early, and not over do it. Hopefully!

Kate
Two suggestions for the migraines. Because of were the headaches are.

I would see if you can find a good massage therapist. I know that mine has helped my headaches a lot. Also it helps the other aches and pains of my body. I have fibromyalgia and at times its really bad. I have stiffness and tightness in almost all my muscles. So she works very hard to help try and
keep it down to a minimum.

Next to step down to another drug, ask if you could also have imitrex.
Its the sister drug to what you are taking. Just not exactly the same thing.
Its also what I take, it works really good.

Donna

kate,

I just got back from a Brain Injury Support Group meeting at our local rehab hospital. The neuropsych gave a presentation on sleep problems. He said that the research points to low doses of Amitryptiline as being beneficial to increases in REM sleep. It sounded as if he also meant that higher doses were counter productive. He left before I could ask any follow up questions.

Just an idea to pass on to your prescribing doctor. Maybe he is already using this info.

Kate: After my then 14 year old daughter suffered a series of concussions, in addition to balance issues, light & noise sensitivity, difficuly focusing, headaches and fatigue she started having what we termed "episodes" where her energy would completely drain from her body to the point where she could hear all that was going on around her but was unable to respond even to groan or lift a finger. They would come on suddenly and without warning, although we figured out eventually that lack of sleep and long periods of loud noise would predispose her. Eventually the episodes got less severe and frequent and after 2 1/2 years she is back to old self. What was critical in her recovery were the following:
(1) EFFEXOR -- Technically an antidepressant, but in small doses helps to re-establish nerve pathways in the brain (She first used Elavil, but Effexor has fewer side effects); (2) ACUPUNCTURE; (3) OSTEOPATHY; and (4) HOMEOPATHY. She didn't do all of these concurrently; for example, when #2 didn't seem to help any more she moved on to a practitioner who combined #'s 3 and 4. I hope this helps. This condition can be so frustrating and it's easy to feel defeated, but please know that people do get better. Throughout the course of her recovery we never imagined that she'd be whole again, and there were points along the way where we felt, "OK, she's not the way she was, but she can live a normal life with some modifications." It's still early in your recovery and ANY improvement is worth celebrating. You're fortunate to have such a supportive husband and understanding children. Good luck and good health to you.