it is all right to have doubts and to try as many paths as you want...how about Buddhism(sp)-i like their premise that life is suffering instead of the western approach that we should be happy. i think it is so important that first and foremost we have to learn to be gentle with ourselves. we are so vulnerable and it is very hard to feel safe and isolation while it creates safety augments the depression and anxiety and feelings of helplessness.
love you
bobby

you have such a good soul bobby,
love you
bizi

How are you waves?
maybe sleeping by now.
rest my dear.
(((((HUGS)))))
bizi

Catholic church protocols
 

i guess i was trying to say i feel uncomfortable doing anything with it, as much as not. the only two options for me being crossing myself with it, or not.
YEP that is what i do if i have to go into a church, AND have a choice. the answer as to what to do crossing the altar is you are supposed to genuflect and cross yourself with bowed head. not hard exactly. but i get it all muddled up (not to mention i feel idiotic doing it because it doesn't feel genuine).

i am respectful to the degree that i can, yes. but if someone considers my not genuflecting disrespectful, and YET expects me to go up the center aisle (as with family funerals), well maybe they should focus on why they are there instead of scrutinizing me. (different story if were to interfere with someone directly of course, but i avoid non-prescribed interactions.

that's funny.

yes, the candles are usually for prayer though. often dedicated to a specific saint - a representation of the saint will have several candles disposed for lighting. sometimes you have to pay to light them nowadays... oh they call it an "offering." JESUS said the church was for EVERYONE. People running churches nowadays seem to forget that, have rules you only know if you go, and can be very unwelcoming.

i've been thrown out of a basilica before - and quite unceremoniously - due to dress code (skirt length, sleeve length, collar shape?) well, i had read every single poster/notice on the outside, i did not find any dresscode, so i entered. i saw it on the way out. it was the only thing posted on the door - on the INSIDE of the door, so you could only see it leaving. idiotic. but they didn't mind my 5 euro offering at all... they probably didn't even see it - they only saw my clothes... how SPIRITUAL.:rolleyes:

waves

Dear Di
good way to put it.

awwww. thanks Di. that was so sweet. i guess i feel i have lost my creative spirit. that is what has left the shell. that is the real me. but. i can't seem to create anything any more. not songs, not poetry... at least nothing decent, no ideas for stories, no art, no drawing, no beading, no macrame, no fuzzy creatures, painting i can't do in the house... drawing i could but no inspiration. maybe i need a muse. but what good is a muse if the slug has left the shell...

thanks Di. that was helpful. i think that is likely what happens with my mother. thing is, my mom's behavior has led me to keep all dark thoughts from her, period. because i see that it will be bad enough for her even if i didn't "do anything," let alone if i did and she had dismissed it as ridiculous. so, she is effectively unreachable now, when it comes to this stuff.

fortunately i do not think it will come to "doing anything" because i am afraid of success and failure both. but it would help to feel able to talk/vent. instead, i can't talk to anyone in real life but my pdoc-tdoc where i also need to talk about other things. like how to get out of this.

anyway, i really appreciate your support and advice. your personal parental insight i do think is applicable in my case, and validates what i suspected. ((((hugs))))

waves

Dear Bobby ... with much meandering regarding religion
 

i agree re: life is suffering but Buddhism doesn't stop there.

basic Buddhist teaching goes something like this:
Life is Suffering
There is a Cause for Suffering
There is a Way to end Suffering
The Way to end suffering is the Eightfold Path.

... which culminates in nirvana so... ehh,, that is like the ultimate in happiness. so Buddhism DOES want to teach you to be happy. it just says you don't start out that way.

In contrast, Christianity teaches that we may indeed suffer in this life but if we make the best of what we have, enduring what there is to be endured, we earn entry to Paradise (i.e. The Big Happy happens only after death.) Does Judaism teach that you are supposed to be happy? that to me is as you say part of western culture but not so much a religious concept. in fact not at all.

my spiritual tendencies are eclectic and i doubt they will narrow much unless i have some sort of direct mystical revelation.

i draw upon multiple religions which is one of the issues i have with going to Church because other Christians are unlikely ever to see me as a "true" Christian unless they have particularly open views - especially in the way they conceive of divinity. Then there are my "uncertainties" regarding what happens after we die that come precisely from exposure to diverse religions with diverse metaphysical considerations.

i had exposure to many far eastern concepts from a young age, but at university i specifically studied Hinduism, Taoism, and Buddhism as well as religious and "magical" practices of various isolated populi. plus bunches of philosphy with metaphysical deliberations on the nature and existence of God, souls, life..... on and on..... me = eclectic. the "specific" shirts just feel too tight on me now. i've seen too many and made sense of too many that i can't shut them out.

i know what you mean. but i think sometimes i am too gentle. too soft. i dunno. so hard to find the balance between gentleness and pushing the envelope. because insufficient action perpetuates depression in similar fashion to isolation. but we are bipolars, we are not exactly famous for balance.i do not feel isolated ... in fact i often feel downright crowded. i do realize having the folks helps at this juncture - if they weren't here, i'd be isolated. but getting out of the apartment is another kettle of fish for the moment. it does not seem to strengthen me, but wears me thin. today i made an effort to interact with ppl in useful ways but in all but one case ended up feeling uncomfortable. the one case that was ok was a woman who sneezed and i ended up talking to her about my allergy medicine and we talked about our respective doctors in town. she was quiet and nice. her demeanor was non threatening and i didn't feel any expectations. maybe that is why. but that is not usually how it goes. :o

i AM really glad YOU are getting out and about since you DO live alone. i remember being in those conditions, and i was once while in a ghastly depression. luckily i had car, had therapist whom i saw twice weekly. car is private... so getting out was less traumatic in a sense.

love you too
waves

i don't know what the Jews in general believe. I like rabbi nachman. he said don't despair whatever you do. the way he treated himself....egads...deprivation and thensome and i think he died at around 38.
we believe in a world to come....i didn't know that. resurrection.
of course you know we believe in a Messiah who hasn't come yet and when he comes there will be peace in the world and among all creatures.
You cracked me up about being gentle with oneself and our being famous for problems with balance as we are bipolars.
i am glad you had that nice conversation with the gentle woman about allergy medications. I love conversations like that when both are helping each other.
love
bobby
thanks for the discourse.

I did not know that your faith bobby believed in a messiah . wow...but there is a lot that I don't know about religions.
bizi

Dear Bobby
 

Dear Bobby
glad you got a chuckle out of my comment on bipolars and balance. ;) thought you might. i was aware the Jewish Messiah is still to come. Christ and Mohammed were recognized as prophets though, right? i was oblivious the coming of the Messiah was to bring peace among all creatures, and about the world to come and resurrection. that sounds similar to the Christian concept of dying and going to heaven, unless it can be repeated multiple times - in which case it would be more like reincarnation? i am farily ignorant on near eastern religions and philosophy outside of the Christian faith... rather ironic considering they share the same roots! :o

thank you for sharing. rabbi nachman didn't sound like someone after happiness in-this-life. sounds like a martyr too. eeks.

love
waves