Hi,

I am up early.
Hubby has agreed to do things my way although he gets tripped up here and there about who is in charge. :cool: :D


It is 90 degrees and raining.
I wish I had downloaded some songs.


Mari

By the way I hope everything went well today.

Donna:grouphug::hug:

my saga of packing
 

Hi,

In anticipation of bringing a cooler for our lunch, last night I put some bottled water in the fridge and bagged up some ice in the freezer.
On the way there, hubby and I stopped at a grocery store for
~ croissants
~ blueberry Greek yogurt
~ sliced turkey
~ grapes
~ hummus
~ precut cauliflower and broccoli
Late in the afternoon, the three of us (Seamus, hubby, and I) ate a sort of picnic lunch without having to mess up the kitchen

When we first got there, I had hubby pull stuff down that was on top shelves and then Seamus taught him something about Linux and had him doing computer tasks more than half of the time. Hubby learned some things and stayed out of our hair.

Seamus (14 years old) and I boxed up a dozen boxes of vinyl that his father had started collecting in the early 1970s. Then we went through Seamus' stuff.

When his mother came home from work at 5:30, Seamus and I twice sent her and hubby out to the store to buy supplies: more wrapping tape, more boxes, zip lock baggies, . . . .
. . . Those two also dropped some stuff off at Goodwill.

During the day Seamus and I attended to a sweet elderly dog named Beethoven. The poor dog could not see or hear and was perhaps disoriented by the boxes on the floor. (We did try to keep his normal paths clear for him.) (The three cats ignored us.)

The temperature in the house was 78-80 degrees Fahrenheit most of the day with the old a/c working very hard.
At 8:30 pm, hubby and I left to come home.
I left them in good shape. They will be ready when the moving truck comes on Saturday to take them across the country.
They thanked us.

Hubby is going back to their place tomorrow / Wednesday (without me) to bring his printer so Seamus can print inventories and labels for his boxes.

Mari

Good job Mari and Hubby.

Wow, that was a lot to do. And I'm sure they were both appreciative.

I know if it had been me I would have been. And I'm sure the

Dog was very pleased for the attention.

Donna:hug::grouphug:

Donna,

It as a hard day. I was on (working) every minute and it was so hot.
i used all my skills --- diplomatic and otherwise.

I need a day or two at home to recover.

Mari

that was nice of you guys to help. I am sure they appreciated your help
bizi

Having a very hard time
 

Bizi,

I was aware that helping them organize and pack would cost me.
Two days later and I am an exremely depressed, anxious mess.

M

i hope you recover soon.((((((HUGS))))))
bizi

Re: Having a hard time
 

Dear Mari

Feel better. :hug::hug::hug:

waves

Hubby
 

Hubby commented on how productive I was organizing and packing and wondered aloud how I could accomplish so much there but nothing at home.

I told him because at home he criticizes me and puts up road blocks.
He said that he did not mean to do that.

I feel like disappearing -- going somewhere to make a different life . . . . where I can live on my own . . .

M

I wish he had left it at praising you for the organizing and packing, and left off the not-so-little jab. :(

Proof in point - his point about your accomplishing "nothing" at home.

I wonder if he might have Aspergers rather than OCD+ADHD? He seems to "live in his own world" a lot...

Could you go away for a few days? Hole up in a modest hotel, say, near the beach? I have done this before. Booking and packing were somewhat hard when depressed, but less so than for the typical trip involving social visits or other obligations. I booked online and basically threw T's and jeans in a bag. I had lots of downtime in the room watching TV, but I also went out walking some. I was in a place with good air and beautiful scenery. It was stimulating but in a peaceful way - very refreshing.

I don't mean to bog you down with my personal experiences (again). It was just a thought.

waves

Hi, Waves,

That is a great idea.

Two years ago (in May?) I went with my friend to Ft. Meyers for two nights. It was good to be somewhere that wasn't here. I needed a break from work.

I wonder if I can find a therapist for me who understands Aspergers very well and who could help me deal with him.

Yes, about living in his own world.
Old tdoc is the one who recognized OCD and thought he had a high degree of anxiety. He and I had three sessions with her over the years.
He has some ADHD in that he barely listens to what people have to say -- but maybe that is Aspergers. He tunes them out and sort of day dreams about something else. He has developed coping mechanisms over the years such that he can pretend to be listening. Also, he would rather talk than listen.

Probably he has more Aspergers than the other two but I do recognize the other two. I found myself calling him "Rain Man" the other day when we were at the house to do packing/organizing. He either did not hear it or did not see the connection or how that related to him.

There is a teen -aged character on a family tv show that gets upset when something is different from the plan. I do not know how realistic the character is drawn but Hubby gets upset when a plan is not exact. Even one small detail can disturb him -- like the right flavor of yogurt for our picnic the other day but the wrong brand.

Mari

Hi,

Before I went to bed this morning, I told hubby I was "kicking a ** and taking names." I was probably not using the expression exactly correctly but it made sense to me.

I told him that I was probably going to sleep this afternoon after the appt but for the next three or four days he was going to drop all of his other plans to help me clean and organize the house, clean the fridge, help me get together the hurricane supplies (including first aid together and in one spot).
I also told him for two weeks he was going to eat clean in the house (no junk) so that I can get a break from seeing him bringing in treats.
He agreed.


I want this place clean enough that I can invite people over.

Mari

Asperger Disorder: DSM-IV Diagnostic Criteria
 

Maybe this can help a little but I do think an experienced professional would be a good idea. I don't know if a formal dx can be made without information regarding childhood sx.

Three plus early for appt !!
 

I showed up at 12:00 for an appt for much later in the afternoon. Ack!!!
It is just as well because the paper work took forever. In fact I gave up and asked the woman at the desk to help me with the forms.
I am trying to hold things together but to have to hold things together is going to take everything ( do not want to do a total freak out in front of the prpple at the desk. )
. . . dealing with a psych appt all day instead of an expected 20/30 mins is exhausting.
I would rather be at home watching tv.

---
I am on my phone. Typing stinks.

He prolly has two from the second section but I do not know about the first section -- the items do seem to be appropriate for someone young as you say.

Three plus hours and I am past worn out
 

Trileptal 300 bid according to the prescription in my hand.
I was polite but insistent w/ staff when I saw that I was walking out the door without my Verapamil. Those were a scary 8 mins. . . . Not knowing if I would get my Verapamil refilled.

I saw her for 4 mins because staff squeezed me in.
Appt was for 3:45.
Office was chaotic and awful and I do not like the building -- creeps me out.
I was there too long.

sorry about your pdoc appointment
 

Hi Mari,

I am sorry about the yucky afternoon! :hug::hug::hug: By the sounds of the experience, you'll be looking for a different pdoc?

I hope the Trileptal helps. 300 bid is a low dose - adjunctive therapy, OR, she gave you that to start you out. I still think it would be good to titrate up to that rather than take the entire 300 bid. Check with the pharmacy if the 300 tablets(?) are splittable.

I did not have problems with Trileptal for a good while. Later I did, but not sure why. It happened after a virus - that might have had to do with it. I wish I had been given blood tests; instead I was told to wait it out for about 10 days. When things didn't improve I was d/c'd. Until then, though, it was effective and free of side effects. I hope that can lend some encouragement. :)

I am about to write you a bunch more stuff on Aspergers, with a link to the source. Please don't feel pressured to read or reply right away or even soon. It won't go anywhere and neither will I.

waves

personal experience with *possible* Aspie
 

I have a friend who believes he has Asperger syndrome but does not have a formal dx. It may be relevant that my friend has an unusually high IQ (genius range), which might produce social isolation intrinsically or cause differences in a possible Asperger presentation.

I don't see the first section in him much, but I have run into a couple of things with him:

1. Social bluntness. Eg. While IM'ing, most friends would warn me they would need to leave in a few minutes etc. He, on the other hand, would just say, "Well, I have to eat dinner now," followed by, "Goodnight," and leave! (I had a talk with him about this. He gives me advance notice now... but it took time to get to this point. It was hard to explain it to him.)

2. Failure to understand/accept others' needs without an exhaustive and logical (to him) explanation. Eg. He came to stay in the nearby city so we spent time together. I needed to come home to fetch something or change, or something. It was more than an hour round trip; he insisted on keeping me company - said he had nothing better to do. I asked him to wait downstairs assuring him that I would be very quick. I said I was sorry, that it wasn't my place and I couldn't invite him up. He insisted! I said I was sorry and that it was too hard to explain. For 15 minutes worth of "conversation" he met my every objection with, "but ... WHY?!" A not-so-close friend would have been cued by my request to wait downstairs, period. A close friend might have taken a jab at me about not being let in, but would not have pushed it; they would have understood that I did not have complete control since it was my parents' home. Certainly most anyone would have perceived my acute discomfort. This friend did not get any of these things.

I was reminded of this visiting incident when you described hubby's failure to understand the significance of the mango issue.

waves

Article on Asperger Disorder: differential dx and comorbities
 

I found an article on Asperger syndrome/disorder. Unfortunately the focus is on children, but it gave some precise indications regarding comorbidity and differential dx of OCD, ADHD and anxiety. I can try to see if I find some material on adults.

Diagnosis and differential diagnosis of Asperger syndrome
Advances in Psychiatric Treatment (2001)

Considerations for differential diagnosis, according to the article above:

Quote:

Obsessive compulsive disorders (DSM–IV) The core features of obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD) are recurrent and persistent thoughts, impulses or images that are experienced at some time during the disturbance as intrusive and inappropriate and that cause marked anxiety or distress. The individual recognises that these are a product of his or her own mind. Compulsions involve repetitive behaviours or mental acts that a person feels driven to perform to reduce stress associated with some dreaded event or situation. An adult can recognise that they are excessive or unreasonable

Quote:

These phenomena, including the urge to count and manipulate numbers, to repeat the same action over and over, are similar to the repetitive routines associated with Asperger syndrome. Individuals with both conditions display ritualistic behaviour and resistance to change. Where they differ is that persons with Asperger syndrome have obsessive interests that are not experienced as ego-dystonic and, indeed, are often enjoyed.

Quote:

Affective disorders Despite some overlap in symptomatology [...]affective disorders differ in representing a distinct change from premorbid functioning, and typically are associated with onset in adulthood. Epidemiological studies of psychiatric comorbidity are lacking in individuals with autistic spectrum disorders, but depression, anxiety disorders and bipolar disorder occur more commonly than in the general population and represent substantial morbidity

Considerations for differential diagnosis, according to the article above:

Quote:

Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (DSM–IV) Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) presents with inattention, distractability, fidgetiness, impulsivity and hyperactivity. Persons with (High Functioning Autism) spectrum disorders may be hyperactive, impulsive, have a short attention span and share similar executive function deficits as patients with ADHD. The conditions differ in that ADHD lacks the classic impairment in reciprocal social interaction, narrow interests, repetitive routines and non-verbal problems of Asperger syndrome.

Quote:

In accordance with a hierarchical rule in DSM–IV, a person meeting the criteria for a pervasive developmental disorder cannot be diagnosed as having ADHD.

Quote:

it is important to consider that impulsivity can interfere with social relationships, making children appear unempathic. Indeed, children with ADHD can be so easily distracted that they appear to be in a world of their own and therefore seem socially disconnected.

CONVERSELY,

Quote:

children with Asperger syndrome are not uncommonly misdiagnosed as having ADHD, since it is often the attention and hyperactive problems that parents first observe

This is interesting. I think it might take an expert to tell if his coping mechanisms are consistent with what an adult Aspie might develop, and similarly whether his, ehh, "excessive blabbing" is a plausible characteristic.

This could be a manifestation of Asperger - or any autism spectrum disorder.

Waves,

That is helpful and I have stuff to say re the Aspergers. 'Will get back to this later. Day has felt busy.

Re psychiatrist;
I really hate that building. It is the same building and the same floor as the one time tdoc who dumped me.
The is an old, never maintained building.
I even let myself got creeped out when families and people who were waiting with me needed a key to use the restrooom ( a shared key. gross).

I made this progress this afternoon:
1. called insurance company to ask them to find me a psychiatrist.


2. called to make an appt with possible new tdoc that my insurance company found for me earlier in the week. She ONLY takes morning appointments. That stinks.
The person in the office gave me the name of someone else who can see me Monday (few days from now) at 7:45 p.m. at a little distance from my place but distance is reasonable I hope. Traffic will be light at that time I believe.

3. I searched through the data base and found a psychiatrist who I believe answered the phone (Eastern European accent that matched the name in the data base -- unless of course I am really off about that) but was leaving and told me to call back on Monday at which time I will be able to get an appt.

M

About the 300 mg trileptal. You can split those in half. Derrick is right now
because he is supposed to be taking 150mg right now till the end of July.

Donna:grouphug::hug:

Well done!
 

Hi Mari

You accomplished a lot making the calls for a different therapist and psychiatrist. Great that you have an evening therapist appointment! :)

Great job moving on (and past!) today's bump in the pdoc-road.

I wish you a peaceful evening and night.

waves

Waves,

Yesterday was exhausting but I survived.
1. The pdoc gave me a new med that I have to drop off --- long story about electronic 'scripts vs handwritten 'scripts.
2. And I did not break down at the very end when the pdoc apparently did not add Verapamil to my list of 'scripts ("refills" in my haad) and the staff would not make the correction for me. I insisted on the Verapamil even though the person I was dealing with tried to tell me that I had to get that from my g.p.
+=+=+=

I think I slept eight hours AND I think I went to sleep about midnight and woke up a little after eight. That is amazing.

I am helping hubby put together the trash so he can put it outside for pick up and then maybe I will go for a walk in the early sun.

Mari

Mari,
I hope your day is ending well. Thinking you got he 8 hrs sleep during the night is a good thing. Getting out in the sun and fresh air sounds refreshing and hoped you were able to enjoy a walk.

Too fast the weekend will be over and you'll have the access for appointments. Today sit by the grass, smell the flowers and sun giving you a hug of warmth.
Di :grouphug:

Good evening, Mari
 

Alright! You did really well! http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/happy/highfive.gif

Great news! :)

I hope today was a much easier day for you. It sounds like you were productive. I hope you enjoyed your walk. :):hug::hug::hug: Thanks for all your support today.

waves

Waves,

Well then, old tdoc got it very wrong. She might have been right about the anxiety -- not sure.
He does have hoarding which can go with OCD and anxiety.

The scenario about asking the friend to wait --- does not exactly fit his case. But I understand. In hubby's case, he has been culturally programmed to be very sensitive and respectful of private areas.

After reading your posts and then ovserving him, I am reminded of how much he gets upset when something goes wrong in a way that things go "wrong" for normal people on "normal" days: -- a dish breaks, we get ants, something is misplaced, . . . .
Also he cares very much about rules, esp. about other people breaking rules.
Also he has to do his rituals --- meal prep, getting dressed,

He is much like the autistic teenage character Max Bravermann in t.v.'s Parenthood although I could not find a good youtube link. The parents in that show have gotten training in how to deal with their son.

I will get back to this.
Maybe I should get some DVDs of the show. It sometimes is easier to see the behavior in an adolescent on the screen than an adult.
We could discuss it.
In the Big Bang Theory t.v. show, the four major characters have Aspergers- type traits but their version is about having social issues. . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSVhXOFtoYY -- This show is comedy while Parenthood is drama.
The writers of The Big Bang are on record as saying this is not about Aspergers --- prolly to allow themselves to make up stuff.

Hubby is very sensitive to social cues . . . . even if it is the case that he might not notice exactly how to interpret what has happened but does notice that something happened that is important. But then he can argue about the interpretation and when I do not find it interesting I drop it. I only engage if he is hugely wrong about someone important like a boss but that rarely happens.
Oh, and he can once in a while take something and want to keep talking about it forever. 'Wants to go over it again and again and then the other angles. He holds onto it like a turtle. I can sometimes find it hard to disengage when he thinks something is important and needs to be hashed out until he can put it into perspective or make peace with it.

Mari

Waves,
 

Right.
Saturday he should me a box of mango tea.
He assumed that it was something I could not drink or be near but wanted to check.
I said he was right to want to keep it away from me.

(I actually have no idea if that mango tea would make any difference to me but I answered in a way that would show logical consistency to him.)

Mari

Sure. I can check youtube again, or try to find transcripts. Unfortunately the show doesn't air here.

Hilarious! :D
Yes, we need to be wary of that. Monk is another fictional example showing OCD and autistic traits, even autistic-savant occasionally. The OCD is blatant, presenting with the common germ phobia. Sometimes obession-resistance and compulsions are illustrated also. However, some of more autistic-like behavior contradicts his obsessions, eg. Monk is shown walking and touching each street post - with NO germ preoccupation! Furthermore the character seems socially inept at times, but occasionally acts quite normal. Even taking him as dual-dx, there are too many inconsistencies! After all, the character was created with the sole purpose of making people laugh, not to model a type of behavior for a psychology class.

His overall sensitivity tends to argue against Aspergers; his trouble with interpretation tends to argue in favor. His cultural upbringing needs to be considered in all of this. Parenting in some cultures involves more social rigor. Just as he was trained to observe privacy, he may have been trained to observe social cues. This could explain why he can spot but not necessarily interpret cues. Aspies can be coached in the social arena.

Still, an Aspie must meet TWO criteria from the first group. His behavioral reciprocity seems more than adequate - you say he prefers to speak (seek attention) than he listen (give attention). From the little you've said, he does have peer relationships - he's not a loner. That leaves the social cues and empathy/emotional reciprocity. Does he seem to have a near-normal level of empathy and show emotional reciprocity, as far as you can tell?

Overanalysis - easily falls in with either Aspergers or OCD, but it is not diagnostic of either. I used to over-analyze A LOT more than I do now.

================

Remember that all of these disorders/patterns, ADHD, OCD, Anxiety, Asperger's, have several required characteristics. Normal people can be obsessive, inattentive or have social quirks, without having OCD, ADHD or autism. Some people may even have many sx, but not enough to be dx'd - they would be subsyndromal.

Since your husband has traits related to multiple disturbances and his behaviors cause strain between you, a therapist who has experience with all these disorders might be able to afford you some insight into his behavior, and possibly help you find easier ways of interacting with him. You'd probably have to provide information on your husband's early years which you'd have to get from him.

I'm sorry. I wrote a book again. :o And to think I haven't even replied to everything... sigh.

I hope today is a good day for you. :)

waves

Great! He is making efforts to meet your needs on the mango issue! :) This is a huge progress from laughing about it just because you didn't require an ambulance like his buddy.

Totally! http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/im...ons/icon14.gif Your showing certainty about the logic is helpful too, imho. It' draws a clear line. In reality, for you, exposure to those teabags is a bit like playing russian roulette with lower stakes. All he needs to know is that, yes, the gun is loaded.

waves

The thing with autism and its relatives. Is that whether a person is diagnosed with it. They can have things on the list, look like they have it,
so then need the treatments that work for a person with autism or aspies
in this case.

My grandson has lots of the symptom to me of a autisms diagnosis.
But in other regards, he doesn't one being he is very social.

So many would say that puts him out of the diagnosis field. I personally
disagree, I feel he still could easily have it. But more in other ways.

But it will never be a diagnosis, because he is to social and the speech
is to much for the other things.

Donna:grouphug::hug:

hmmmm
 

Hi Donna & Mari,

This is interesting. :) Along the same lines, the friend I mentioned who feels he is an Aspie has a somewhat limited social life but is very expansive. Now, he is shy with strangers in social situations, but not so with people he knows.

He also used to do amateur theater and still enjoys teaching. He held one of my undergrad classses when he was still in grad school - I found him very engaging as a teacher.

waves

Donna,

I wish the diagnosis were part of a spectrum.
Someone could be a little bit Autistic or have Autistic traits and still be able to get help.

Mari

less cooking maybe
 

Hi,

Saturday I made a huge mess in the kitchen while making a smoothie with
almond milk
cocoa powder
cinnamon
flax seed
sliced almonds
bananas

I turned on the blender and my stuff went everywhere because I had not properly attached the vessel with the stuff to the bottom of the machine that spins.:confused:
It was really a mess and I decided to make official my retirement from cooking or otherwise dealing with food (I was almost there already). I cleaned it up and threw away the pieces of bananas that were still in the vessel.:p

So on Sunday, hubby and I cleaned the fridge and organized it a bit and made plans for him to do all the main shopping and cooking. We can each adjust our diets so that he cooks the main dish for both of us. Saturday and Sunday we talked about food a lot. (He checked with me more closely than he usually does before he started cooking.)

This is what he made on Sunday:
eggplant-stew-persian-koresh-e-badenjan

His recipe was pretty close to the one in the link. He did not use any meat and he was probably heavy on the sour green grapes. It was fabulous.

-->> If I can get him the two of us to communicate and plan better, I can drastically reduce my time in the kitchen -------
. . . . . . it is hard for me to pay attention and I get stressed and he would rather be handling the tasks anyway.

We will see how that goes.


Mari

Mari

Even if you get a small break it would be fantastic right.

When it comes to Will and a diagnosis of autism. It really wont matter.
He at school can get the help for the symptoms of autism. if he needs
them.

Its more that we in other areas can't help him if he needs it without
understanding he needs it.

So I'm hoping that if they decide it looks like he has lots of the syptoms
the will tell me, not just his mother. So I can help get things set
up to help.

My son is in denial that this particular thing can be happening.
Donna:hug::grouphug:

Autism Spectrum
 

It is.

Asperger's is an Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD).

Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASDs) are also called Pervasive Developmental Disorders (PDDs).

The PDDs include an NOS dx: Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Not Otherwise Specified, which expressly serves to "catch" subsyndromal individuals with severe/pervasive impairment.

LINK to DSM-IV criteria for PDDs: http://www.firstsigns.org/screening/DSM4.htm

"299.80 Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Not Otherwise Specified (PDD-NOS)

"This category should be used when there is a severe and pervasive impairment in the development of reciprocal social interaction or verbal and nonverbal communication skills, or when stereotyped behavior, interests, and activities are present, but the criteria are not met for a specific pervasive developmental disorder, schizophrenia, schizotypal personality disorder, or avoidant personality disorder. For example, this category includes "atypical autism" --presentations that do not meet the criteria for autistic disorder because of late age of onset, atypical symptomatology, or subthreshold symptomatology, or all of these."

They can.

However, as an adult, with or without a diagnosis, a person must be willing to receive help. Insight is often a factor. This isn't always the case, in particular when the person does not feel troubled by his way of being - even if it is disturbing to others.

I have been posting more from the perspective of your being able to get help in interacting with your hubby because of my impression that he is not receptive to seeking help for himself. I apologize if that was a misconception.

waves

Warning - virus on this webpage
 

ALL:

VIRAL THREAT ON THIS LINK!

My antivirus popped up when I visited the page in recipe link Mari gave above (sorry, Mari! :o:heartthrob:)

If your antivirus does not catch it you could get infected.

My antivirus caught a Javascript exploit.

If you are bent on visiting this site, one way to prevent infection would thus be to DISABLE JAVASCRIPT TEMPORARILY in your browser settings. I can't rule out that there could be other issues however.

I will quote the basics from the page since I already have the page open. :o That way you all can see the recipe without going there.

waves

Eggplant Stew Recipe - from Mari's post
 

Here's the recipe from Mari's post above...

Waves

In the US at least they are changing the Autism title. To include all diagnosis
this fall. So the PDD-NOS will be included with everything else.

This is one that is harder to get a diagnosis with, but we work to do it.

Donna:grouphug::hug:

The exploit viruses are all over the web. Anyone can pick one up anywhere.

My husband got it on his Win 7, and we finally found out that these latch onto old versions of Java...that remain active when new updates are done with Java.

Here is my post about it:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/post813614-9.html

We found many old versions on this computer and Java website labeled them for us so I could remove them. It is a good idea to check your programs according to their directions and remove old things that make you vulnerable.