that is so great that he didn't drink last night. he must be trying...oh how difficult.
bobby

You called it!

I felt a lot better when I woke up this morning! :):):)

I took 750mg the last 2 days and was still having symptoms, but I stopped at 700mg today. I'm not sedated, and I feel pretty good :):):)

I have pdoc's blessing to go up to 600mg of Gabapentin. That might mean fewer prns, but I'm worried about taking that much along with 600mg of Seroquel. I felt comfortable enough this morning to wait for the prns to kick in. I wasn't feeling desperate like I was the last 2 days.

It's only been one day (it seems like I say that too often). I'll see what tomorrow brings.

I forgot to mention that pdoc said that the FDA is putting out a new warning for gabapentin re:addiction. Apparently people are using it to enhance the effects of narcotics.
Lyrica, new-gen Neurontin carries an addiction warning on its own merits. I've tried it for my neuro pain. It works well, but I stopped it because it's highly sedating. Also highly expensive.

Kay

p.s. I did check out that site, Mari. It's interesting, and aptly named lol

I only needed 650mg of Seroquel today. It's an improvement, but I feel wiped out and I'm in a rather vile mood because I've had a (expletive) day...

Kay

hi kay, I am sorry you had a rotten day.
bizi:hug:

hope you are feeling better today
bobby

For the last couple of days I've felt well enough in the morning to try to treat my anxiety before taking any Seroquel...

But this morning when I woke up I had quite a bit of anxiety, but knew right away I wouldn't need a prn, and the anxiety responded well to the Xanax.

I feel like I might be coming down :):):):):)

I'm guarded though. I've made progress several times over the last 2+mo. only to escalate again. A very wise friend of mine has pointed out that Gabapentin is used off-label for many things... it may be acting as more as a sedative than a mood-stabilizer. This may very well be the case, since I've been very tired the last few days. If it is indeed acting as a sedative, the effect will probably wear off and I will need to increase the dosage over time.

And if I've learned anything over the last 2 months, it's that my BPD is difficult to control.

While I'd rather have more history behind this progress to fully enjoy it, I'm going to try my best to cast away my doubts and enjoy this day :)

Kay

I hope that you enjoyed your day!
bizi

I was hypomanic yesterday, but didn't realize it until later in the day. Maybe I didn't pick up on it earlier because I was tired in the morning, my symptoms were milder, or I was looking for symptoms of dysphoria...

I started having rapid thoughts and spent about 4hrs cleaning my fridge (a departure from dysphoric mania, and a return to more goal-directed behavior again). I decided it was too late in the day to medicate, but I probably should have.

I took the Gabapentin early last night to avoid the tired side effect, but stayed up too late (the 600mg of Seroquel didn't sedate me). And I woke up 3hrs later than usual- symptomatic. I treated my anxiety, per usual, but I haven't decided if I'm going to take any more Seroquel yet. So far, my symptoms are on the milder side and I don't want to be sedated.

I have a feeling I will end up having to medicate though. The typical witching hours are approaching.

I'll have to work on the timing and dosing of the Gabapentin. A wise friend is helping with that. It's obviously been helping in some way to reduce the severity and quality of my symptoms, but I don't like waking up that tired in the morning and it makes it hard to catch symptoms early.

I'm disappointed, but It's still a good day. At least the hypomania is milder and more pleasant. I can still play around with the meds to see what will work for me. I know some of my friends here have had some success doing the same thing.

Kay

keep playing around with your meds until you get them right. wouldn't it be great if you could just use a pill box and take them the same way every day and you not have to worry so much and question yourself.
I hope that the rest of your day goes well.
bizi

Kay,

Those of us who never make it to mania and who are always slightly depressed even on good days, do not aim for perfection. A more or less "good enough" day is good enough.

On days that I do not have to be at work, waking up sleepy from meds is o.k.
======

That's good that you are getting help with the Gabapentin.

I remember years ago I used to take my "night" meds at two different times in order to avoid the waking up sleepy for the work day that started at 7:15 a.m.

I took the Tricyclic antidepressant at 5:00 p.m. in the afternoon and the other "sleep meds" 9:00 p.m. for example.

The 5:00 p.m. dose somewhat worked.

M

My symptoms never rose to the level of needing to medicate yesterday... I think 50mg of Seroquel would have blown me away.

I'm taking 300mg of Gabapentin 3hrs before bed now, and I'm not waking up with that tired feeling anymore. It's about 2:30 here now and I don't think I'm symptomatic. I may still question my judgement with the milder symptoms, but if they're really that mild, like Mari said a, "'good enough' day is good enough."

I'd love to be able to pop my pills out of the box everyday like most people, but I have to get used to the idea that hypomanic symptoms are just going to wax and wane until I finally level off, or have a depressive episode. At least with the Gabapentin on board, I have more room to move with the Seroquel. The most important thing is to keep me safe by fending off mania- especially agitated mania.

I haven't had a drink since July 20th, although I have had a couple of non-alcoholic brews. I've had alcohol cravings that have been fairly easy to put away, but my husband has been home for the long weekend. He takes Bailey's in his coffee and I've been having the strongest cravings for it. Despite him telling me it really doesn't count as alcohol, so it doesn't really matter (so supportive), I stood my ground. I am an alcoholic. I may have hit rock bottom, but it just goes to show you, I'll always be crossing my fingers- even when it comes to coffee.

Kay

sounds like a good day kay!
Good for you for sticking to your guns in regard to the alcohol.
Hubby was not being helpful...grrr.
bizi

I never did a lot of drinking at home. I'm a social binge drinker and my drinking increased when my hypomanic episodes did. But once I start drinking, I can't stop. And at times I've (expletive) up my life because of it.
I think I already mentioned I was off my meds and manic prior to my s/s attempt and my life was a mess...

I was drunk for 4-5 months straight before my s/s attempt in December. I stopped drinking for 3 mo after, then I would only have 1-2 beers every mo or so until July when this episode began.
I was sober when the agitated mania hit. There wasn't much I wouldn't have done to make it stop. The first night I had 4 beers, got bombed, and got a couple hours sleep. But when I woke up I realized if I kept drinking it would be too easy to lose my grip again. Sure enough, a couple of days later, there wasn't anything I wouldn't have done to make it stop. But I was able to get myself to the hospital this time. I'm here because I stayed sober.

I can't drink. It's too dangerous.

I don't have my license right now because I got a DUI in December. I could have had it back a couple of months ago but was too busy being manic. I think it's been easier to stop drinking because I can't go anywhere. I have no desire to revisit my old haunts though. I don't want to expose myself to unhealthy environments, I'm embarrassed by my behavior during those 4-5mo of mania, and everyone has heard about my s/s attempt by now. I cut off all friendships that were based primarily on drinking. Unfortunately, that meant just about everyone.


My husband doesn't care if I drink, as long as I do it at home. His understanding of bipolar disorder remains poor (despite his claims to the contrary) so he doesn't understand how dangerous it is. He doesn't want me to get my license back because he's afraid I'll drink and drive (understandably) or cheat on him (?).

I costs $70 every time I go to the pdoc or therapist because I have to take cabs. I've been seeing the pdoc once, sometimes twice a week for the last 2mo and we can't afford it. My case manager wants me to see my therapist every week... never gonna happen (even if it was cost effective).

I told him that if I become out of control, he can always take the keys away. He has his doubts. I reminded him that I've voluntarily handed over my debit card to the joint account twice in the last 2 months, and given him unrestricted access to my doctors and case manager (never would have happened before). He seemed a little more receptive.

I don't want to be out and about driving if I'm unstable, but if I'm stable on meds I can't be stuck at home 24/7. I'm 35yo. I'm starting to feel better, and I'm already getting cabin fever. I'm running out of things to clean. What's the point of being stable if I'm going to live my life stuck here alone like this all day? It's going to lead to depression.

At the very least, I want the freedom to be able to go to the store and buy my own tampons if I need them. I don't want to have to ask my husband to take me and have him roll his eyes and groan.

I'm sorry this went very long and off-topic...

It served a couple of purpose, though. I guess I needed to remind myself why I can't drink. I guess I needed to vent. And I realize now I need to take some Seroquel.

Kay

is your husband getting a little more receptive. it sounds as if he loves you
bobby

I think he's trying. I know he loves me. :)

that is so great
bobby

I was a mess yesterday- 700mg Seroquel. I should have bumped the Gabapentin up to 600mg last night, but I thought I was just having a bad day.

I'm a bigger mess today- 750mg. I'd go up to 800 if I could. I was tempted to take all 150mg of prn's at once when I woke up this morning, but I played it safe and took 50 at a time as usual. The wait was not fun. There goes the pleasant hypomania again...

When the rapid thoughts come, I can't control where they take me. No, I'm not s/s. Just disturbed.

Conveniently, I have an previously scheduled appointment with pdoc today.

I have options: 2 meds, different doses to play with, but I'm still (expletive) sick of this.

Kay I use to drink over a period of ten years. I was a alcoholic, and I depended on that high,and relaxation. Then it all turned upside down. My life went through a tailspin, and I had to kick the habit.

I have a high tolerance for alcohol. My dad was a alcoholic,but he kicked the habit,and so did I. It was not easy,but that alcohol chapter in my life is over,and I'm much better off. BF:hug::hug::hug:

I hope I can be as strong as you Steve. I'm gad you were able to kick the habit.

:hug:

Kay

I saw the pdoc yesterday:

600mg Seroquel at night, 50-200mg prn during the day (up to 800mg)

600mg Gabapentin at night, or in divided doses for sedation during the day

I'm manic again, and this time it's my fault for letting it escalate. I felt better and was letting things slide. I was enjoying the days when I thought I was asymptomatic, and benefited from the pleasure and productivity of mild symptoms I didn't think needed to be medicated. But it doesn't take long for things to turn ugly.

I have to medicate no matter how mild my symptoms are, no matter what time it is, even if it means I might be sedated. I'm still going to medicate 50mg at a time to try to avoid that, but I may have to sedate myself on purpose at some point. Apparently I can't get away with anything.

I see the pdoc in a week (again). If I start pushing 800mg everyday, or something else comes up, sooner.

Aside from having to accept the fact that I'll be spending some time sedated and there's a very slight chance I may have to snow myself, nothing's changed. I go up, I go down, med doses change. Same old story. I'm sick of it. I have a feeling you are too.

600mg Gabapentin last night
11am: 100mg Seroquel

i feel for you.
bobby

Sending some hugs Kay.

Donna :hug::grouphug:

WE are not sick of it.
Feel free to vent post say cry anything you wish....we will listen to you.
((((HUGS))))
bizi

Kay,

That is a good report from the pdoc visit.:)

Not medicating enough to be in the right range is not your fault just like being bipolar is not your fault.
I aim for getting it 70% right for 70% of the time.
I usually do not make it.
But I DO have moments in the day/ week when I feel like I am near 70%.

At the moment, I would not say I am "tired" of it.
But I do have a really weird thing when I get "surprised" (in a bad way).
For example, if I am having a bad day, I get "surprised" sometimes.
I have so many bad days for decades and yet they feel "new" in a way.
I guess I can say that this is never boring -- although I know that I am boring to others.

I do not know how else how to explain it.
[I do recognize that being manic and not being manic can be a fine line
and one that has consequences although I have not lived it myself.]

===
I hope that the constant adjusting and monitoring settles down for you.
That level of having to be alert really would be tiring. :heartthrob:

Re being snowed: I am guessing that you avoid that as much as possible. What do you do to pass the time/ make things tolerable when you are "snowed."
M

Kay

I want to thank you for keeping the updates so specific. There is no way you could have known because I haven't posted it yet. That it is helping me
help my son Dan because he was just put on Seroquel about 2 or 3 months
ago. And even though we all know how important it is to stay on it once prescribed. He thought he was better and quit taking it.

But something happened and he went back on. And started keeping his appointments with his psychologist also. I could always tell when a medicine was working or not. I can also tell when he is maniac, and when he is at a good
level. As of now I know for a fact his level isn't right. But it takes time
to be raised.

So listening and seeing what you write. Has helped me so much. He lives
right next door. And luckily his gf is the one that monitors and watches his
medicines the most. But when he is maniac I'm one of the first that knows its going on.

He isn't one to text much. But when he is its a maniac sign. Even to the
extent one night. My husband wanted to know what was wrong with him. He had been texting and texting him also.

Donnan:hug::grouphug:

My pdoc is pretty blunt. When she explained Wednesday that I was going to have to accept some level of sedation at times, she reminded me that our treatment goals remain the same 1) keep me alive and 2) keep me out of the hospital. Your treatment goals are probably different than mine. Every time I escalate it scares the (expletive) out of me, and I have ample reason. You know enough.

With your support I thought I was finally making progress last week and was going to attain something beyond those goals, even if it meant I would be adjusting meds and living in the gray area at times. I thought Gabapentin was the silver bullet and I was finally evening out...

Enter agitated mania again, where the symptoms are obvious. I'm in a unique position. I have to endure it, but only for as long as it takes to get enough med in me to quiet it. But even that is too long to wait. If you haven't experienced it, I don't expect you to understand what an hour of it feels like. There is no fine line there like there is with typical mania and hypomania- at least not for me. And it doesn't take long to get there.


Self-assessment is stressful when it comes to milder symptoms, but it will be easier now that the new plan is to stop second guessing myself and just medicate. There will come a time when things settle down and I stop escalating. Medicating will be probably be a lot easier then no matter what the plan is. In the meantime, I am still dosing at 50mg at a time to try to avoid Seroquel sedation.

When I was taking 300mg of Gabapentin, I started taking it 3hrs before bed to avoid the am sedative effect. However, last night I took 600mg right before bed and woke up slightly sedated, but not manic. Today is a better day. I only had to take 100mg Seroquel prn. I am going to continue to take Gabapentin in this way until things quiet down more.

I spent 7-8yrs snowed on heavy meds and time went by quickly. I watched a lot of TV and did a little bit of this or that in between. And that became acceptable. I expect I'll be doing the same again, but it will be a heavier level of sedation with Seroquel. At least it won't be an everyday occurrence.

I'm glad that my posts are helping, but I've been considering stopping.

Seroquel works very quickly for me. When I take a 50mg prn (as needed) dose, it usually only takes 45minutes to an hour for it to work. But it does take time to figure out the right maintenance dose, and if I'm any proof, the right dose to bring someone down once they are manic/hypomanic, too.

It's been helpful in managing my paranoia and anxiety.

Dan's lucky to have you so close since you can easily recognize when he's manic. Since I've stopped drinking it's a lot harder for my husband to tell when I'm hypomanic unless I start scrubbing the walls, etc. To be honest, I do hide things when I can.

I'm glad that he's started to become compliant again, no matter what the reason. It must give you peace of mind to know that he'll be safer.

Steve has been a great help to me because of his years of experience on Seroquel.

Kay

Thank you Kay. Yes,I've been taking Seroquel for years. I have this weekly pill tray with four compartments for each day. I take Seroquel two times a day. Twenty five Mgs at dinner time,and 600 Mgs before bed. Taking the meds help stop a relapse before it gets started.

At one time I was under medicated in the 80's. I was very troubled,but some how I got through it. I was crawling up the walls,and started having pains in my chest,that went through to my back,and went up to my left arm pit area.

I started taking meds for OCD around 1990,and I could tell it was helping. They changed my med to Luvox around the mid-90's. It was better then the other OCD medication.

I've been on the Xanax type medication for many years. It's vital to keep the dose small, so it can work over the long run. If people take more,and more Xanax,that can start problems,and then it stops working all together.

In the late 90's,to 2005,I started crawling the walls at work,and became very agitated. I was infuriated about the way I was treated at work. I forgive them,because they know not what they were doing. In 2006,I became hyper, agitated ,anxious , depressed, panic/afraid,and etc. I with drew from the public,and moved to where most of my family lives,and was changed to a team of medical professionals,and put on Seroquel,and the other medications,and I was able to sleep. I noticed that my hyper type feeling had calmed down somewhat.

I am aware that I'll be on these medications for the rest of my life. I hope that they develop better medications.

What the Country needs to do is help people with mental health issues like they do with physical problems,but they don't. They must stop stigmatizing people who have these problems. Like I've said before,we didn't stand in line before life to get these mental health issues. We can't chose,and are stuck with the affliction like people with physical ailments. I don't see much public compassion for people with mental health issues. People fall between the cracks,and are stigmatized.

This is a major blind spot right out in front of doctors practicing medicine. They need to drop the prices of mental health treatment,because the person who is going through mental health issues won't be able to afford it more then likely if it's bad enough.

The news is way out of line when they have been talking about "Mental Problems" recently on the news. They should talk about the difference between sociopath type behavior,and people who have mental health issues. BF:hug::hug::hug:

Thank you so much Steve. You have been through so much pain. :hug::hug::hug:

Last week I was watching a program about the 1990's on the National Geographic Channel and they did a segment about how everyone in America was on Prozac and mental health conditions were no longer Taboo... of course I let out a laugh.
There has been a great deal of "mental health awareness" over the past 20 years. I'm always hearing about it. But somehow the stigma remains. The stigma regarding s/s is worse. I'll wear long sleeves for the rest of my life, but I can't hide the scar on my neck. Thankfully, not too many people check other people's necks. But the people who notice know what it is. When I go out I try to pretend it's not there.

My whole family knows what happened in December, but only my husband and sister know about my last hospitalization. I don't want my mental illness to become the only part of me that they recognize. They're patronizing enough. I don't want to be constantly treated as a broken person.

It's no secret that I worry a lot about drugs and dosages. I can afford Seroquel. It's a good drug to treat mania, psychosis, and anxiety. I can also afford it. I had to take the max dose Wednesday before my pdoc upped the Gabapentin. I freaked out. Thankfully my Seroquel dosages have gone way down since the Gabapentin went up, but if I max out on Seroquel will I be able to afford the next drug?
It's no wonder people stop taking their medications. The costs are so high and many people are without the tools or resources to find financial assistance. And the new wonder drugs are usually so expensive that they are out of reach for many of the people who need them the most. It takes years before the generics are available, and even then they may be extremely expensive (ie/ Abilify).

Thank you for throwing me a life line, Steve. I've been feeling like I've been living on an island. :hug::hug::hug:

When I'm dysphoric (and I know it), I think I should be posting on the SOS forum because a lot of my thoughts are about my s/s attempt or become associated with it.
Or I shouldn't post at all because I'm negative in general and what I write may not be well received.

Kay

without a doubt you should post here and maybe the other. don't worry.
fondly
bobby

Compassion for Ourselves and for One Another
 

Hi Kay,

You have been through so much.
I am so very impressed by your continued dedication to do your best.

Doing our best does not mean we won't get tired of it, won't feel down, won't get frustrated, won't ever think about all of our options. It's normal to want a way out of pain, any/all types of pain. :hug:

I understand not knowing, one day to the next, if/how I will be able to participate in life. I often have to sit out, or change plans, because the pain is too much and the level of pain meds needed during those times also sometimes cause additional sedation. I understand when you talk about living for long periods of time, accepting the need for medication and feeling like you are passing time, until things get better and you can manage something different. I am often doing the same.

This can feel so isolating when it goes on for long periods of time. :hug:

I do feel the stigma is lessening. More and more people seem to talk more openly about issues of mental health. I feel this is very different than it was in the '80's and '90's for instance. It's improving.

Many people feel severely depressed and/or suicidal at some point in their lives. I honestly feel more and more people are willing to admit this to others, are more willing to talk about it. It's not a "rare" thing -- thinking about suicide, attempting suicide.

I have struggled with feeling suicidal, off an on, through the past 30 years of painful conditions.

It's also the case that many people having attempted suicide also feel a deep sense of regret, shame and/or stigma. In my experience, this is much more about how a person feels about him/herself, and not so much about how others (family/friends) feel about them. I feel there is a lot of self-judgment and/or self condemnation about suicide attempts.

I, for one, am glad you have survived. :hug:
I know so many others are also glad you have survived.

I hope and pray you can release yourself from paying any price in shame or otherwise. You don't deserve to suffer from any sense of shame or self-judgment for anything.

Kay, please know you are highly respected, greatly admired and truly loved and accepted for you, as you are.

I see a beautiful soul trying her best to deal with very challenging conditions.
You've been doing an outstanding job at taking care of your needs.

It's a pleasure to support you through whatever comes your way.:hug:

We are all here to love and to support one another. :grouphug:

With Admiration, Love and Prayers,
DejaVu

Patience is one of the things that I try to practice. It's so important. I'm trying to be patient with the meds, therapists, me, and all of the aspects of life in my struggles with mental health issues.

I try to be patient with time.

It's so important to be patient with people when It comes to our mental health challenges. They usually don't have a clue what's going on with us. We don't know what's going on either. BF:hug::hug::hug:

Thank you for sharing your experience with me, and for your compassion, empathy, and reassurance :hug:
I'm sorry for all of the pain that you have suffered as well :hug::hug::hug:

I do harbor a lot of guilt, and feel a great deal of shame. Thoughts, feelings and memories about it have run scattered through my mind (along with other random thoughts) at a million miles an hour during the episodes of agitated mania I have had. It's just a piece of this kind of episode, but it's unintentional self-torture.

I'm extremely lucky to be here. I'm happy I'm here. I'm doing everything I can to stay safe, and I hope one day I can forgive myself.

Thank you :hug::hug::hug:

Kay

I think this time around was different for me because:
1. I experienced agitated mania again
2. I had to take the max dose of Seroquel for the first time
3. I was convinced I was finally getting better and
4. I'm worn out

You're right, Steve. Patience is important. I have to remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint. And this is all trial and error.

I think paying close attention and keeping a personal chart of how much med I need daily is really the only thing I can do to help pdoc and I figure this out.

If I make any sustained progress or have anything significant to share with you, I will. I don't think I need to document everything here.

Thank you all for your support and encouragement,
Kay

Kay,

Getting them down (handwritten/typed/posted) helps lots.

Certainly post whatever you want here.


M

For the first time I think I was on too much med.

The 600mg dose of Gabapentin shut the mania down fast and the amount of Seroquel I needed during the day dropped off quickly after that. I haven't needed any prn Seroquel for 2 days. I started waking up sedated again despite pushing the dose back 3hrs before bedtime. I think once I came down, it became too much med for me.

Last night I took 450mg (3/4 of a 600mg tablet) at bedtime. I didn't wake up sedated and haven't had to take a prn yet. I'm feeling pretty good today.

I see my pdoc Friday. She lets me play with Seroquel, why not Gabapentin? I figured it was worth a shot. I won't make anymore changes without discussing it with her though.

kay I think you are amazing!
bizi

I'm looking forward to reporting good news to my pdoc for the first time in a long time on Friday. I saw her a week ago today. Usually by this time I've escalated again, but I've had no signs of hypomania again this morning and that is significant progress. :):):):):)

The Seroquel was obviously helping control my anxiety a lot. The Xanax is doing nothing again this morning now that the prns are gone. But I have to put it in perspective: it's an easier issue to address when compared to finding the right maintenance dosing. And I'm not going to let this take anything away from the progress I've made there.

Kay,

I hope that the Fri appt goes well.
You have made great progress.

Mari