All of this was so well said Chris, that last part especially. I am lucky enough to havee my entire family behind me unconditionally, no guilt, no expectations of getting better, etc... It was very hard at first to ask for continuous help, but I think that is human nature, and I do not have a sense of entitlement.

But, your right, maybe them helping me is their fate. (not sure if that is the right word), and as they do this for me, perhaps it is helping each of them grow in different ways. And as long as I do not sit here with an ungrateful attitude, and make sure I always let them know how grateful I AM, even though my family does not like it for me to keep apologizing or thanking them - it is amost insulting (but not really). I have always believed that there is a reason for everything. We are all growing from this in some way or another

Being forcibly ejected outside of societal norms, or consensus reality, is always an intensely uncomfortable experience. Forcible ejection is not the same thing as choice. For instance, when I left my marriage I left my son with my ex-husband, a choice I felt was best for all three of us. I chose work that satisfied my heart and soul but that did not have a large financial return. I chose not to advance in my work (at least in terms of monetary return) at the expense of the horses and people involved in my work. I chose the work that satisfied me over having a family. All of these involved choices that were direct collisions with American societal norms for a woman.

MS was not a choice, but an event of force. The person I am would never have chosen to surreder her financial and physical independence, and self-reliance. Any lesson I may have learned would never have been worth the cost of this suffering, frustration, spiritual pain, and the forcible surrendering of my essential self. Maybe there are lessons involved in all of this, maybe even worthwhile lessons, but when I die you'll find a big "SO WHAT?" carved on my heart. Or maybe "YEAH,YEAH,YEAH."

Chris

These are such great posts, and it seems as though a lot of us has had some very deep thoughts, realizations, etc...

However, I do think that we are able to live with this disease without such contempt for it, and for life itself. It is sad to hear how very angry and depressed some are There really is help and resources out there that I believe we can truely benefit from.

I am also at the declining point and trying to find that acceptance, and it is so hard. Although I have never felt that deep anger, I do have my pity parties!

I'm not angry, over all, Jena, although I do have my moments.

I've lived with MS all of my adult life and am now 66. , so I have been through the emotional gambit...the fear, the anger, the acceptance and the happy moments too. I fell in love, married, and raised a family, all while dealing with MS.

Yes I've been angry at the extra burden I've been, how did Chris put it, FORCED to endure throughtout my life, but I've had a good life and inspite of MS, I still am enjoying it....mostly.

Anger is not always a bad thing, Jena, if used to make you stronger and find new ways to be loving and giving. Even Pride, if it means you are happy with your accomplishments, through the pain of MS.

Oh, I wasn't referring to you Sally, or anyone in particuliar for that matter. I just see so much of it. Yes, anger can definately be a good thing. However, carrying it around for years and letting it eat you up, is just not healthy, nor does it have to be that way. But I suppose that is for another thread anyway

I don't think a discussion of anger necessarily belongs in another thread -- I started this thread with the idea that MS "breaks down the walls of our pride," turning previous notions of pride upside down. Making us consider the idea that pride may be a wall which we use to keep other people from getting too close. For me, MS has had the same shaking-up effect on my ideas of anger.

I'm 55. When I was growing up, the idea that it was ok for boys to allow anger to manifest openly in fist fights, competitiveness, arguing, and dominance, and not ok, or even natural, for girls to do the same was part of the fabric of society. It was only when I was struggling with MS that I realized that not only was I feeling anger because my life was being stolen from me by a process that was a force of nature (and therefore not a matter of choice), but that anger was a perfectly rational response to such a situation. I had to find a way to keep my anger from poisoning my life and negatively impacting the lives of others. For me, that meant bringing my anger out in the open in a way that didn't hurt others, yet acknowledged my humanity. My way of doing this is by openly acknowledging my anger of my situation to myself and others; this is the only way I can keep it from "eating me alive." Yes, sometimes I have open outbursts of anger, shout that I hate what this **#!! disease is doing to me, weep with rage, write angry poetry. At times I allow others close enough to see my anger. On the other hand, my anger has not turned toxic, poisoning me with the anger turned within: depression. Expressing my anger in non-aggressive ways allows me to move on.

Anger is a normal human emotion. Anger at what MS is doing to me is a normal and even appropriate response. Only when I deny and repress it, force it within and keep it trapped there, does anger poison me and eventually scald the people I love.

Chris

I hear you Chris. That should answer Jena's question as well. Anger is most distructive if you either hold in and let it fester or use it to lash out at someone else. Otherwise, as you say, a healthy and natural response to something horrible foist upon us.

I didn't actually ask a question, lol, but that's ok That is basically what I was trying to say - letting anger get to the point where it DOES eat you up, can and will have a direct negative impact on our health, and that is just something we obviously don't need! I truely believe this.

I should also say that there are so many other things in my life: joy, contentment, laughter, love, appreciation and admiration for the people who care for me and have stuck with me throughout this terrible journey I am taking. Concern for them, too. MS does not happen in a vacuum. It's a sad and stressful experience for them to have to witness what is happening to me, yet they stay, offering comfort and help that is a lifeline to me. I am truly blessed by their presense in my life.

Amid the spiritual wreckage left by MS, they remind me that I still believe in love. That love is all that matters; as everything else is stripped away, love will remain.

Chris

You're right Chris, Sally and others -- When I'm angry, it's from frustration of this disease that has taken over my life and not at others. If I have a good cry, yell out a few d#%$& and other choice words to myself, it's getting rid of those feelings instead of turning them into ulcers or directing them at others.

Take yesterday for example....btw, Happy Mother's Day to all the mom's!! I knew none of my "kids" had plans to visit me so I kept my usual sleeping times of going to bed around 8 am and staying in bed til 6 pm or so. I'm not sleeping the entire time, in fact I watched/listened to most of the NASCAR race, but when I did wake up -- what a mess!! Guess I don't realize my bladder being full anymore, couldn't get to the bathroom in time anyway, hurts like h&** to move, legs completely stiffen out, etc. I do have a good-sized waterproof pad on my bed, wear that "beautiful designer underwear", but apparently it's not enough. Feel like my kids as babies in the morning when their diapers would leak and everything, including them, was wet and smelly. Now isn't that something to get mad about!? I think so!!!!

Ask for help?? Who?? No adult kids in the area, no one comes in on a daily basis, my two friends are here Wednesdays and even though they say "call if I need anything", lately there have been logical reasons why they couldn't.

Anger.......hurt......sub-human feelings......one Mothers Day phone call when I was sleeping and two email cards, neither of which I could read with the web tv. This disease has taken me away from my family so naturally I'm no longer included in many of their social, family plans. But when they need something, I'm first in line trying to help even though anything physical is no longer possible. Financial, yes, and it gives me great pleasure......my love for them is still there.

They have no clue what daily life is like for their mom.....I love them, but can still become quite angry with them at the same time. If this disease wasn't here, at 63, I'd be enjoying time with them and my beautiful grandkids. Anger -- feeling "left out" -- frustrated -- of course, and MS is to blame.