Carey posted about the beautification of Pope John Paul for curing a nun with early onset. She was well for a few years [i think -have link] and then is rumored to be ill again. So they prayed for the deceased John Paul to intervene and is now well again.

I"m not saying it didn't happen.
I'm saying it isn't proven until she never gets ill again.
I do wonder how knowledgeable the nun is about her own illlness.
There is no remission in parkinson's that i know of - but there is a strong placebo effect.
This could be a placebo altho it took a couple of months post praying for her to be healed......again.

A point that is emerging from this is you need a miracle to cure Parkinson's.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...parkinsons-ill

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-miracle.html

...that i don't quite know how much i should trust the pope. oh dear. we need many more details.

Lindy,

I totally agree with your comment on economics being the bottom line for most people in deciding on how they tackle this problem of recovery, both in terms of sourcing their preferred choice of treatment and eliminating stressors in their lives. But it is also very much a case of recognising, very early on, when you need to take drastic action in order to save your life.

In this vein, sometimes I get inspiration in odd places. Here is a link to an interview with Aron Ralston, the climber who is the subject of the movie '127 Hours'. He had a climbing accident in a remote place and his arm became trapped under a boulder. He says he realised early on that in order to break free and save his life, he would have to amputate his own arm. It took him 127 hours to work up the courage to do so and an hour to carry out the necessary deed. See discussion:

http://www.wideworldmag.com/features...f-aron-ralston

In fact, it was at the point of reading a similar survival story, of the survivors of the plane crash in the Andes many years ago, the plane carrying the Uruguyan football team, that I located my own sense of determination, to make it a goal to achieve the impossible. I was in despair when I happened to turn on the radio and there was Nando Parrado speaking about what happened to him. See link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle...Long_Trek_Home

These two accounts are not just of surviving, but of going on to thrive and flourish. I think that's what you have to aim for. There are many little details in both stories that can provide pointers as to how to maintain motivation towards action.

They illustrate the difference, for me, between 'belief' and 'wishful thinking'. There's no point in praying to God that you'll win the lotto, if you haven't even bought a lottery ticket. Even God likes to appear rational. Beliefs are relevant, to the extent that they motivate and propel us towards action, hopefully in a positively productive manner.

Muireann posted:

a) strive to maintain a job or career [usually requires the taking of meds], but only buys a few more years of employment at best, or,

b) take time out, get off the treadmill, suffer financial impoverishment, but retain some autonomy over the decision to medicate and hopefully buy time to bootstrap oneself out of the PD state before one is forced to go down the drug route - but you better make very good use of this time to sort out your problems.

Just wanted to say that I think that is a very good statement of the basic dilemma many of us face. I know I did. I am happy to find myself in slot B. Life is a struggle physically and financially, but I feel more in control and free to take care of myself without the pressure of work.

Paula - who knows what miracle was wrought with the Pope and the nun - clearly something happened. I think we should plan a pilgrimage to France and find out!

That 'struggle more physically and financially' is also one of the things that limits choice for different forms of treatment - unless you have invested wisely in good friendships and are able to trade 'skills' it may be an impossibility to access daily massage, or physical therapy, or things like classes in yoga, tai chi etc. the wherewithal may simply not be there......

There are aspects taking charge of one's condition, or rather, being encouraged to do so that can make me uncomfortable. The notion that dis-ease is about an individual having not done the right things in their life, and being able to 'cure' their self is great when it works, and perhaps some do keep the faith, and find they are improved beyond belief, but that is not always so.

A dear friend, in her last two years of cancer which she had fought valiantly, was persuaded that she could 'cure' herself if she did the right things; a mother of young children she was desperate for a cure, and went a very long way down this route. With a lot of effort, hope, and help from family and friends. Following a visit to her therapist she was injured badly when a car collided with hers on his driveway. He neither came out to see how she was, or contacted her to enquire how she was, and in the weeks that followed distanced himself from her completely. She was found on x-ray to have developed metastases in her bones, and the ones that were broken quickly became a focus of the cancer, she never recovered.

It made me think a heck of a lot about the complexities of health, wellness, and disease. Some who had faith in the therapies and the therapist said perhaps she did not have enough faith...... I thought she had bucket loads, she fought all the way.... Did it give her hope for a while, yes, did it cure her, no.

We are not always the authors of our fate. There would be no such thing as doctors if it were not so......

Lindy - so true. We all have our individual stories. I have given up and abandoned a lot to achieve a place of relative peace. But -- I still turn towards doctors. For the first time in more than a decade I had a complete medical exam with a primary care physician, not a neuro - just this week. Turns out my vitamin D level is 7 - incredible! - the usual "low" is 10-12 - so I'm off the charts low. I am so excited to start building my supply, to see if it will improve, well, everything! So while I believe that attitude, open mind, experimentation are a huge part of living with PD, I also have faith in the science. Not mutually exclusive; just well rounded. I want to be better - I BELIEVE I can be better - I will listen to everyone; exclude what sounds wrong; include what seems right - after all, we are only trying to feel better - and, right now, our docs can do no better. I am ready to pray at the shrine of the French nun and endure the exercise while keeping my sinemet, requip and amantadine at a minimum - but not giving up on them altogether.

No one - NO ONE - truly understands PD. Not your doctor, nor any scientist. They are working hard to do so - I have absolute faith in that - but until then (the Fox PPMI biomarker study is crucial), I have just as much faith in myself.

my husband is making his second frip to Israel at the end of the month. Prayer requests are accepted. He takes a backpack and lives on dates and almonds, Last year he didn't even take a jacket but this year he is staying in a hotel and renting a car. he prays at the wall. i pray he comes back alive.

a trek to france would be fantastic. i can get companion passes on delta that would be cheap but we have to fly standby.

I think the placebo effect is the tip of the iceberg of what we can do with faith and obedience. believe it and receive it. i do not like to be judged and am very disgusted when people are made to feel responsible for their misfortunes with health.

nevetheless, miracles are hard to believe unless you are involved in some way.

I believe miracles happen all the time. scr.. the science which claims all the truth while in fact it only scratches the mountain of knowledge.
In reality we come and pass our life on earth not knowing why and we should be content that we are part of this mysterious miracle.
cheers
Imad

So, let's head for Aix en Provence

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/ne...ss_conference/

We could possibly create the positive vibes that can help us to feel better and accept each other's spiritual inner being. where 2 or more are gathered....is all it takes. when i read encouraging posts like yours it just about overflows. we have power to self heal.

But you have to be exercising...it's part of the whole thing, whatever that thing is. it just makes us energetic enough to pusure other positive directions.

i have heard people say that when you are having misfortune, which some would define living life with pd is a lifetime of misfortune, you are being tested because u are at a high point. PD hasn't defeated our spirits.... we must never let that happen.

Right now we have several posters who are exploring other paths. This energy needs to be harnassed and made to work for us all.

I will stop there but i like your attitude Imad, you are open minded to anything - i believe we have to be tolerant. most religions have a similar scenario for the future, and none of them say it's not far off. Including the Hopi, the Mayans, the Koran, and the Bible....it's the age of miracles. See Brad Meltzer on the History channel. Or is it Brad Metzer.

I am pretty sure there needs to be an abundance of love, not the mushy kind, the kind that has power beause it doesn't give up.

overflowing so i'll stop. you have really encouraged me Imad and others.

adding;

i have a repeating number, it pops up to the point that i noticed it. For example, i was on a plane that was named a 319, not the flight number but plane type. Jaye's spritual advisor years ago told me just to pay attention when it happens. it was british airways from glasgow to London and they had just raised the terror alert color and said an attack was eminent. It was a smooth flight and heathrow was grumpy and hard to get through; but they took out 7 germans with a drone that day who were involved. so i am going to post pertinent 3:19s in the bible and see if any strike a chord. I hope others can post for encouragemnet, not proselytizing, just for wisdom and good quotes from where you get encouragement. let's see what positve energy can do.

I'm pretty hopeless. give me a thought and i have to offer action.

Zephaniah 3:19
"behold at that time I will undo all that afflict thee:and i will save her that halteth, and gather her that was driven out; and I will get them praise and fame in every land where they have been put to shame."
===

we shall overcome...p