Parkinson's Disease Tulip


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Old 11-11-2011, 08:46 AM #1
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Default PD as resistance to change

Could it be that what we call "PD" is an inability to change? Think about this a moment.

Every organism has an ability to change in response to its environment. With some more, with others less. The same is true of individuals within a species, including humans. We all know people who can role with the punches and those simply cannot. Where do we fall on the spectrum? I know that I have always preferred that my environment be stable and I suspect that the "Parkinson's Personality" may reflect this.

So, what happens when you bend a stick beyond a certain point? It breaks, of course. Are we broken sticks? Or are we sticks that exist on that event horizon where we are just short of breaking? As soon as we are born, the external world starts to stress us. That's OK because that allows us to respond to the world and stay alive. But we all have a limit. We bend and bend, but if the wind doesn't let up we become mis-shapen and if it blows too strong we break.

A lot of PWP have endured an unusually large stress load in their lives. We also know that it is common to have acute stress in the months before PD symptoms manifest.

Much of our stress response is centered in the autonomic nervous systems and it is common for this system to be damaged in PD.

Many of us over react to sudden noise and "jump" - the startle reflex. Is this not a sign of a system hovering at that critical point?

Is it a coincidence that the most promising of the "natural" treatments we have discussed on this board - particularly turmeric - have been plants that fall into the category of adaptogenic? A category that medicine barely acknowledges as existing? And yet the single "magic bullet" approach of modern science fails time and again?

And, if we look at the situation from an "as above, so below" vantage point, the neuroinflammatory aspects of PD reflect this state to a certain extent.

So, does anyone relate to this?
__________________
Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000.
Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well.
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Old 11-11-2011, 02:33 PM #2
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Default water please (i like to be cryptic)

Dear Rick

about the neuro inflammation...wheres the match that started that forest fire!!??guess the undergrowth was dry and the wind strong.....

Interesting pattern (archetype) you have identified here...i appreciate your willingness to reflect on internal dynamics. Do you see the resistance to change reflected in other ways? For me this pattern shows up as a sort of extreme....from a chaotic search for identity in adolescence to died in the wool loyalist after 30 - both resist real evolution or at least slow it down

from an energetic perspective i would hazard a guess that fear of change in pdism has its knarly tendrils in the lower chakras-those which serve to distribute and energize our power associated with survival. Do we as pders probably stay in unhappy marriages and jobs longer than most? exhibit perfectionistic tendencies? i've never thought of perfectionism as resistance to change but thinking about it it does seem that the need to control things is rooted in perfectionism....thinking such as...i won't leave this marriage till i've learned ALL the lessons, i won't start a practice until i have more and more and more education, i won't stop fighting an unjust lawsuit even though politics have the upper hand and more money, i have to rescue my kids and husband , etc...

that good ol' reptilian brain seems to hold sway all too often - think i'll go meditate.....

kind regards,
md



Quote:
Originally Posted by reverett123 View Post
Could it be that what we call "PD" is an inability to change? Think about this a moment.

Every organism has an ability to change in response to its environment. With some more, with others less. The same is true of individuals within a species, including humans. We all know people who can role with the punches and those simply cannot. Where do we fall on the spectrum? I know that I have always preferred that my environment be stable and I suspect that the "Parkinson's Personality" may reflect this.

So, what happens when you bend a stick beyond a certain point? It breaks, of course. Are we broken sticks? Or are we sticks that exist on that event horizon where we are just short of breaking? As soon as we are born, the external world starts to stress us. That's OK because that allows us to respond to the world and stay alive. But we all have a limit. We bend and bend, but if the wind doesn't let up we become mis-shapen and if it blows too strong we break.

A lot of PWP have endured an unusually large stress load in their lives. We also know that it is common to have acute stress in the months before PD symptoms manifest.

Much of our stress response is centered in the autonomic nervous systems and it is common for this system to be damaged in PD.

Many of us over react to sudden noise and "jump" - the startle reflex. Is this not a sign of a system hovering at that critical point?

Is it a coincidence that the most promising of the "natural" treatments we have discussed on this board - particularly turmeric - have been plants that fall into the category of adaptogenic? A category that medicine barely acknowledges as existing? And yet the single "magic bullet" approach of modern science fails time and again?

And, if we look at the situation from an "as above, so below" vantage point, the neuroinflammatory aspects of PD reflect this state to a certain extent.

So, does anyone relate to this?
__________________
Smooth seas do not make skillful sailors....
Nature loves courage.


“The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence.”
~ Nikola Tesla
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Old 11-11-2011, 04:01 PM #3
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Moondaughter-
Our immune system has two main divisions. We are familiar with the general, learned response where we are exposed to a pathogen, produce antibodies, and once victory is in hand the pathogen is recorded along with the structure of the antibodies so that response will be faster net time. But there is another, innate (i.e. hardwired) response where the presence of an invader is noted, the alarm is sounded, the invader's identity is determined, antibodies are created and rushed to the site. This all takes time, so we have a more "primitive" part that doesn't wait for antibodies. Instead, it uses a cell type called the "microglia". The microglia are always present, but are usually in a mummified state. But they are on the alert and when they detect the presence of potential invaders, two things happen - 1) They release cytokines which act as junior Paul Reveres to rouse the rest of the immune system, and 2) They undergo a transformation that is so terrible that it as though you came home from work only to find that your cute little puppy had morphed into T. Rex and had eaten the neighbors. Ruins one's little ameboid day.

So while we wait for the cavalry to arrive with the antibodies, these "activated" microglia are running around shouting the alarm while kicking bacterial butt. Once the "pros" arrive they stand down and go back to their naps. Unless you have PD.

Rather than rewrite the story, I ask that you read here
and here.

-Rick

Quote:
Originally Posted by moondaughter View Post
Dear Rick

about the neuro inflammation...wheres the match that started that forest fire!!??guess the undergrowth was dry and the wind strong.....

Interesting pattern (archetype) you have identified here...i appreciate your willingness to reflect on internal dynamics. Do you see the resistance to change reflected in other ways? For me this pattern shows up as a sort of extreme....from a chaotic search for identity in adolescence to died in the wool loyalist after 30 - both resist real evolution or at least slow it down

from an energetic perspective i would hazard a guess that fear of change in pdism has its knarly tendrils in the lower chakras-those which serve to distribute and energize our power associated with survival. Do we as pders probably stay in unhappy marriages and jobs longer than most? exhibit perfectionistic tendencies? i've never thought of perfectionism as resistance to change but thinking about it it does seem that the need to control things is rooted in perfectionism....thinking such as...i won't leave this marriage till i've learned ALL the lessons, i won't start a practice until i have more and more and more education, i won't stop fighting an unjust lawsuit even though politics have the upper hand and more money, i have to rescue my kids and husband , etc...

that good ol' reptilian brain seems to hold sway all too often - think i'll go meditate.....

kind regards,
md


Quote:
Originally Posted by moondaughter View Post
Dear Rick

about the neuro inflammation...wheres the match that started that forest fire!!??guess the undergrowth was dry and the wind strong.....

Interesting pattern (archetype) you have identified here...i appreciate your willingness to reflect on internal dynamics. Do you see the resistance to change reflected in other ways? For me this pattern shows up as a sort of extreme....from a chaotic search for identity in adolescence to died in the wool loyalist after 30 - both resist real evolution or at least slow it down

from an energetic perspective i would hazard a guess that fear of change in pdism has its knarly tendrils in the lower chakras-those which serve to distribute and energize our power associated with survival. Do we as pders probably stay in unhappy marriages and jobs longer than most? exhibit perfectionistic tendencies? i've never thought of perfectionism as resistance to change but thinking about it it does seem that the need to control things is rooted in perfectionism....thinking such as...i won't leave this marriage till i've learned ALL the lessons, i won't start a practice until i have more and more and more education, i won't stop fighting an unjust lawsuit even though politics have the upper hand and more money, i have to rescue my kids and husband , etc...

that good ol' reptilian brain seems to hold sway all too often - think i'll go meditate.....

kind regards,
md
__________________
Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000.
Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well.
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Old 11-11-2011, 05:17 PM #4
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Interesting pattern (archetype) you have identified here...i appreciate your willingness to reflect on internal dynamics. Do you see the resistance to change reflected in other ways? For me this pattern shows up as a sort of extreme....from a chaotic search for identity in adolescence to died in the wool loyalist after 30 - both resist real evolution or at least slow it down

A pretty good description of me, actually. It is like a man who fears that he has just fractured vertibrae and so lies very still to survive. If that strategy is pursued he will never know and will die where he fell.

from an energetic perspective i would hazard a guess that fear of change in pdism has its knarly tendrils in the lower chakras-those which serve to distribute and energize our power associated with survival.
I think that you are right about the chakras that are involved. It is odd that so many of our symptoms seem to involve those lower elements, whether it is our GI system refusing to cooperate or a dopamine agonist setting our libido ablaze.

Do we as pders probably stay in unhappy marriages and jobs longer than most? exhibit perfectionistic tendencies?

I have the impression that we are loyal to a fault.

i've never thought of perfectionism as resistance to change but thinking about it it does seem that the need to control things is rooted in perfectionism....thinking such as...i won't leave this marriage till i've learned ALL the lessons, i won't start a practice until i have more and more and more education, i won't stop fighting an unjust lawsuit even though politics have the upper hand and more money, i have to rescue my kids and husband , etc...

"Life is change. How it differs from the rocks..."

that good ol' reptilian brain seems to hold sway all too often - think i'll go meditate.....

kind regards,
md[/QUOTE]
__________________
Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000.
Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well.
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:23 PM #5
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Rather than rewrite the story, I ask that you read here
and here.

-Rick[/QUOTE]

excerpted from your article:
"Neuroinflammation’s severity is determined by individual sensitivity and by the nature of the challenge. Individual sensitivity is determined by a number of factors, such as genetics, epigenetics, prenatal exposure to bacterial toxins, adult infection, etc."

i am thinking that epigenetics can trump all the others - its the one factor we as pders can participate in ......c h a n g i n g the pattern

md
__________________
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Old 11-12-2011, 07:53 AM #6
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Yes. Epigenetics is kind of exciting (Are all PWP prone to understatement? ). It is a large part of our individuality and is an area where we can have a conscious influence. And it is so new, as well.

A report this morning may be of interest. The stereotypical PWP is said to avoid risk-taking behavior. (I could point out that getting out of bed can be a risk for us, but I won't. ). And the stereotypical age of onset is in the mid-50s or so. So, I wonder about this report in Science Digest this morning linking risk-taking and age- "Risk-taking Behavior Rises Until Age 50"


Quote:
Originally Posted by moondaughter View Post
Rather than rewrite the story, I ask that you read here
and here.

-Rick
excerpted from your article:
"Neuroinflammation’s severity is determined by individual sensitivity and by the nature of the challenge. Individual sensitivity is determined by a number of factors, such as genetics, epigenetics, prenatal exposure to bacterial toxins, adult infection, etc."

i am thinking that epigenetics can trump all the others - its the one factor we as pders can participate in ......c h a n g i n g the pattern

md[/QUOTE]
__________________
Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000.
Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well.
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Old 11-13-2011, 09:06 AM #7
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MD, Interesting that you say 'water please...'. There are some people, including the amazing Tom Issacs, also of this board, who believe and advocate that we need more water, and that we do not drink enough. I relate to this absolutely, I have been 'forgetting' to drink most of my life, along with 'forgetting' to do a number of other things.

Rick, if resistance to change include the microcosm, yes, it is the small things that get me, moving from one task to another. Can get caught up in doing a single task, like vacuuming house, and find myself 'over doing' it. Also this accounts for a kind of perfectionism, the ability to stick with a task for a long time. It also accounts for not moving on from one task to another. Don't know whether this is what you had in mind....

flexibility issue is also interesting, as was a very flexible person inner and outer, though you would not believe it if you saw me now. Did I run out of it or was it just my neurotransmitters defining me. Not sure. But I wish I was back there, I miss sitting on a cushion most of all........

funnily I can pull out the stops for most defined exercises, even though the movements are more limited, ie not so wide open...... Walking is the one that gets me though, what is it about walking that is so difficult, it used to be my daily joy.....
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Old 11-13-2011, 10:02 AM #8
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Let's play with this idea a bit. Change is, by definition, a "stressful" experience in that it disturbs the status quo and requires the expenditure of resources to return to a place of balance with one's environment. This is all governed by the chemical cocktail produced by the endocrine system. Cortisol, epinephrine, and norepinephrine are major components.

Cortisol is a sort of Swiss Army knife hormone with important roles in-
* Proper glucose metabolism
* Regulation of blood pressure
* Insulin release for blood sugar maintanence
* Immune function
* Inflammatory response


In looking at this, it is interesting to note that one of the first effects of a dose of sinemet
is a lowering of cortisol levels. Some of the benefit that we ascribe to increased ldopa may, in fact, come from lessening of cortisol's effects.

Effects of longterm exposure can include, among others, -
* Impaired cognitive performance
* Suppressed thyroid function
* Blood sugar imbalances such as hyperglycemia
* Decreased bone density
* Decrease in muscle tissue
* Higher blood pressure
* Lowered immunity and inflammatory responses in the body, slowed wound healing, and other health consequences
* Increased abdominal fat, which is associated with a greater amount of health problems than fat deposited in other areas of the body. Some of the health problems associated with increased stomach fat are heart attacks, strokes, the development of metabolic syndrome, higher levels of “bad” cholesterol (LDL) and lower levels of “good” cholesterol (HDL), which can lead to other health problems!

As you can see, there is a lot of overlap between cortisol levels and some of our problems. Finally and just to make things interesting-
"Cortisol secretion varies among individuals. People are biologically ‘wired’ to react differently to stress. One person may secrete higher levels of cortisol than another in the same situation. Studies have also shown that people who secrete higher levels of cortisol in response to stress also tend to eat more food, and food that is higher in carbohydrates than people who secrete less cortisol. " (From about.com)

It might also be relevant that walking is a particular problem since it is an activity which generates a high rate of change, especially out in the world versus indoors on a treadmill.

Just thinking out loud...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylanka View Post
MD, Interesting that you say 'water please...'. There are some people, including the amazing Tom Issacs, also of this board, who believe and advocate that we need more water, and that we do not drink enough. I relate to this absolutely, I have been 'forgetting' to drink most of my life, along with 'forgetting' to do a number of other things.

Rick, if resistance to change include the microcosm, yes, it is the small things that get me, moving from one task to another. Can get caught up in doing a single task, like vacuuming house, and find myself 'over doing' it. Also this accounts for a kind of perfectionism, the ability to stick with a task for a long time. It also accounts for not moving on from one task to another. Don't know whether this is what you had in mind....

flexibility issue is also interesting, as was a very flexible person inner and outer, though you would not believe it if you saw me now. Did I run out of it or was it just my neurotransmitters defining me. Not sure. But I wish I was back there, I miss sitting on a cushion most of all........

funnily I can pull out the stops for most defined exercises, even though the movements are more limited, ie not so wide open...... Walking is the one that gets me though, what is it about walking that is so difficult, it used to be my daily joy.....
__________________
Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000.
Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well.
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