[julleri]

Originally Posted by mrsD

There is a pretty good oral GABA now. I used it last May, and continue with it now at 1/2 dose. It is called PharmaGaba.
We lost our young cat last May, and I was a wreck for weeks looking for her (to no avail).

Natural factors used to make it, but Amazon stopped carrying it in the capsule while I was on vacation. I just ordered the newer company called PharmaGaba Gold.
http://www.amazon.com/GABA-Supplemen...ds=pharma+gaba

GABA is antianxiety and not supposed to work orally, but this one seems to....made a different way using a natural source.
I tend to be anxious at night, and sometimes upNorth in the spooky dark woods on vacation too.

I find it very calming without hangover or side effects. When I was a wreck I used it twice a day, but now only one at bedtime.
The new brand is slightly less expensive than the old Natural Factors was.

Houdini? Is that the name of the cat that went missing? I remember you being worried about this, yes, back in May. I'm so sorry he/she never turned up.

I'm originally from Wisconsin, and have spent some short periods of time in northern Wisconsin and the UP of Michigan. Really beautiful places, they are.

Wow, well I can really feel the vitamin C kick in. I will be sure to be careful on megadosing anything now, given what I've learned today. I am always worried about my B12 deficiency issue (never in a million years thought a simple vitamin could wreak so much havoc on the system, but, if we think about it, these are the types of things people used to DIE from - scurvy, pellagra, etc...), and my nervous system after years of antidepressant poisoning. Wondering how this will all heal, but, time... time... time is probably the best medicine with regards to all of this.

MrsD, thank you for everything!

Jason

[mrsD]

Yes, it was Houdini... We adopted a new kitty upNorth. A barn cat and she has taken most of the pain away.
Tough to tame her though, but now she is delightful. Wednesday is her spay. I guess I'll be taking two PharmaGaba caps on Wednesday. I have her photos in my album here.
We had to put Oreo to sleep 3 days before our vacation as her cancer came out of remission with a bang, and we couldn't take her up there the way she was. sigh. It was so sad. She was 14.
She had a rare cancer with a rapid course, but our new Vet kept her active and enjoying life for year. (prognosis was 2mos).
A friend of ours runs a rescue/spay non profit up there, so I contacted her and she picked the best kitten for us and saved her until we could pick her up. I told her a black was okay as long as shorthair with intelligence and nice personality. Weezie here has become Maya's surrogate mother and friend, and you should see them together...Maya adores her. Weezie was kind of lost without Oreo too, so having Maya was good for her as well. It was tricky being up there with a kitten, but since Maya hid most of the time she never tried to escape and all went well. The trip home was unpleasant tho, but they have to learn sometime! Lots of carrying on and crying. HOURS of it.

I really think that the effervescent and soluble liquid forms orally work very fast. AlkaSeltzer works in minutes too.

Emergen C has a loyal following of customers too!

[Marie33]

Originally Posted by mrsD

There is a thread where I bring this new problem up...and a doctor came on with additional information:

t is long, but I think worth reading carefully.

Until about a year or so ago, the common thought was folate was good for everyone. Then young women started using high dose folate for preventing spina bifida in their babies. Then, some new data emerged that some of these high dose patients were showing up with colon cancer at a young age.

According to the doctor who comes on that Metanx thread, it is the "unactivated" folate that may be to blame. But still the research is not firm on that.

I stopped recommending high dose folate over a year ago, because the subject remains murky.

Folate has been pushed and even added to US foods, in the hopes of reducing heart disease/stroke which may be caused by elevated homocysteine levels.

I would keep your total folate consumption down to 800mcg a day, until this data clarifies.

Methylfolate is available now thru Solgar at 400 and 800mcg doses. It was off the market for a while, because Merck, who holds the patent for making it, wanted to control it and make more $$ off the RX versions. But it now has returned to OTC status. So if anyone is really concerned, using it instead of folic acid regular type, may be a better intervention. But there are no guarantees yet.

MrsD
I saw a foot Doctor last week. He gave me Metanx sampes for my SFN and said to take two a day to start. The label says one pill has 3000mg of folic acid, L-methylfolate. That translates to 6000 a day. Im reading that high doses of folate may not be safe, should I stop taking the metanx and buy the supplements P5P and B12 and take them seperate? Im really concerned now, last thing I want is for these pills to make my neuropathy worse.Thank you for all your help!

[Marie33]

Originally Posted by mrsD

If you are not converting some of the Bs to active form, they may show up in the serum as high.

B6 must be activated to P5P. (riboflavin is used for this conversion)
B12 is activated to methylcobalamin
Folic acid is converted to methylfolate.

There are genetic errors that prevent this conversion. You inherit them. They are called MTHFR polymorphisms and I explain it earlier on in this thread.

A doctor came on to another thread here about them recently...
take a look: I have read 10% of people have this, but he claims new info at 30%:


Metanx is an RX vitamin with all 3 activated B's in it. That is what that thread is discussing...generic and OTC versions.

Hi My Doctor gave me samples of Metanx last week. He said to start with taking two a day. The Folic acid converted to Methylfolate is 3mg in one pill. I read on another post that it may not be safe to take folate in high levels. I have SF neuropathy in my legs , arms hands and feet with alot of tingling and pins and needles. I wondern if they are safe to take? I dont think I want to ask my doctor because I dont think he would even know. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. scared and worried now...Thank you

[mrsD]

Yes, you can take them separately.

I bet the Metanx does not say empty stomach either?
Unless that has changed recently.

You can get the methylcobalamin and take 5mg daily for 3 months on an empty stomach. It is very inexpensive. Swanson's, Puritan's Pride, Vitacost etc.

The methylfolate is OTC too, and Solgar makes one at 800mcg.
One of these a day is enough. Folate is not typically a player for PNers, unless they have that genetic mutation...MTHFR polymorphism. I agree with you that massive doses of this are not needed. You might want to watch your foods, and try to keep folic acid levels down, since some papers now suggest that folic acid in fortified foods may compete for methylfolate at the blood brain barrier. This will probably cost the most for you...iherb.com may help with that. There may be other brands now out there less expensive, but Solgar brought it out first OTC on the second round of availability after Merck company refused to sell it OTC! That was a huge scandal, but is now over.

P5P by NOW is a good brand, and is enteric coated as well. It is not expensive. There is a movement now by a drug company to take THIS off OTC status so it won't compete with a new P5P being developed RX...I hope this is till available therefore.

One of each of these a day should help you in a way similar to Metanx.

[Marie33]

Originally Posted by mrsD

Yes, you can take them separately.

I bet the Metanx does not say empty stomach either?
Unless that has changed recently.

You can get the methylcobalamin and take 5mg daily for 3 months on an empty stomach. It is very inexpensive. Swanson's, Puritan's Pride, Vitacost etc.

The P5P is OTC too, and Solgar makes one at 800mcg.
One of these a day is enough. Folate is not typically a player for PNers, unless they have that genetic mutation...MTHFR polymorphism. I agree with you that massive doses of this are not needed. You might want to watch your foods, and try to keep folic acid levels down, since some papers now suggest that folic acid in fortified foods may compete for methylfolate at the blood brain barrier. This will probably cost the most for you...iherb.com may help with that. There may be other brands now out there less expensive, but Solgar brought it out first OTC on the second round of availability after Merck company refused to sell it OTC! That was a huge scandal, but is now over.

P5P by NOW is a good brand, and is enteric coated as well. It is not expensive. There is a movement now by a drug company to take THIS off OTC status so it won't compete with a new P5P being developed RX...I hope this is till available therefore.

One of each of these a day should help you in a way similar to Metanx.

MrsD Thank you for your quick response,
Are you saying you agree I should stop the Metanx because of the high level of folate. You mention massive dosages are "not needed", if I keep taking the Metanx at this high dose could it be harmful or is it just being wasted?..Metanx goes on about how the high levels , Methylfolate being the highest dose 3mg per pill are what makes this medical food different and works best. You are correct no mention on how to take it, with or with out food.
I will shop for L-methylfolate 800mg as you suggested. (right now I have about 2 weeks samples of Metanx from Dr)
How much P5P is effective and safe? Should the bottle read only P5P (for the B6) or can it read P5P B6. Which is the better or correct way to buy B6 and at what dosage per day? Im a bit confused being I never bought them converted before. (Some companies have both B6 P5P and just P5P.)
massive doses of this are not needed. You might want to watch your foods, and try to keep folic acid levels down, since some papers now suggest that folic acid in fortified foods may compete for methylfolate at the blood brain barrier. This will probably cost the most for you... MrsD Im a bit confused with the above statement where you wrote about "cost", what will cost the most for me? Did you mean "cost" by it could affect my health, or more costly (expensive). sorry for my confusion and all my questions. Thank you again as always for your help!!!!

[mrsD]

Massive doses of methylfolate are used to try and treat some depressions. It is not working out as they planned however.
Some people get agitated on high dose folate.

Also there is a situation of very high dose folic acid in young women increasing the rate of colon cancer. This is thought to be due to pre-cancerous lesions gobbling up the folate and that is stimulating growth. But no one knows for sure yet. Some young women take 5mg or more of folic acid before and during pregnancy, especially if they have had a child with neural tube defects already. Because colon cancer is not common in this age group it is a concern, but not proven yet.

Metanx (just because is RX) is not really approved for efficacy by the FDA. It is under an umbrella called "Medical Food". It is only RX because it contains more than 1mg of folic acid and there is a rule that anything over 1mg requires RX in US. But studies were not needed for its status for releasing to the American Public.

I don't think the short course of samples is a concern, but if you get agitated with that high folate, you could just take one instead of two a day.
I prefer this product because it is enteric coated. P5P is not stable in stomach acid:
http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-P-5-P...60-Tablets/740
One of these a day, is plenty.
B2 is included because it is the cofactor for pyridoxal kinase to convert B6 to P5P... that is why it is in there. The enzyme works on other B6 present in your foods.

[Marie33]

Originally Posted by mrsD

Massive doses of methylfolate are used to try and treat some depressions. It is not working out as they planned however.
Some people get agitated on high dose folate.

Also there is a situation of very high dose folic acid in young women increasing the rate of colon cancer. This is thought to be due to pre-cancerous lesions gobbling up the folate and that is stimulating growth. But no one knows for sure yet. Some young women take 5mg or more of folic acid before and during pregnancy, especially if they have had a child with neural tube defects already. Because colon cancer is not common in this age group it is a concern, but not proven yet.

Metanx (just because is RX) is not really approved for efficacy by the FDA. It is under an umbrella called "Medical Food". It is only RX because it contains more than 1mg of folic acid and there is a rule that anything over 1mg requires RX in US. But studies were not needed for its status for releasing to the American Public.

I don't think the short course of samples is a concern, but if you get agitated with that high folate, you could just take one instead of two a day.
I prefer this product because it is enteric coated. P5P is not stable in stomach acid:
One of these a day, is plenty.
B2 is included because it is the cofactor for pyridoxal kinase to convert B6 to P5P... that is why it is in there. The enzyme works on other B6 present in your foods.

Thank you MrsD!
So far I do not feel any agitation from the folate so I will continue (if its just about the agitation and is relatively safe to take at this high dose) with what I have. Just alittle jitter but i think its from either the Rlipoic acid (100mgs), Im having a hard time with the AL-Carnitine even at 250mg, guess my system is very sensitive to stimulating type meds.
I went searching for the B12 -methylcobalamin. I can only fnd it in either 1,000 or 5,000. I was thinking I would go with the 1000 because my B12 level is already at 1280. (Im nervous bout taking higher doses because Im already at 1280, dont want to make things worse) but I wanted the "benefits" of the 5,000 as so many people have reported they are using the higher dose and feel better with no side effects. Oh what to do Thank you!!

[mrsD]

I find the lipoic acid to be quite stimulating. I take it early in the day therefore.

Each person is different. You may not need the carnitine if you suspect it of jittering you.

This is why I suggest people start up one thing at a time,
to see what works and what is not necessary.

The folate thing didn't hit me until later...it was not a fast
response. I've tried several times to take the methyl form and each time I get anxious! go figure!

[Marie33]

Originally Posted by mrsD

I find the lipoic acid to be quite stimulating. I take it early in the day therefore.

Each person is different. You may not need the carnitine if you suspect it of jittering you.

This is why I suggest people start up one thing at a time,
to see what works and what is not necessary.

The folate thing didn't hit me until later...it was not a fast
response. I've tried several times to take the methyl form and each time I get anxious! go figure!

MrsD Thank you for your response,
I think the R lipoic Acid at 100mg is too much , I thought it caused me to have an anxiety attack ysterday, becuase it came on about 1 hour after taking it. (I had been taking it everyday for a week so far with no major problems, but now im thinking of breaking it in half.) But now after reading how the folate affected you Im wondern if the anxiety was triggered by high doses of the folic acid (6000mg in Metanx ,3000 2xday, doctors orders) . Are you still taking the folate at 800mcg? hows that working for you?
So you think 800mcg is all I need. That means I am taking 5999.2 mg too much. By taking one 800mcg that would mean my dosage would be reduced to .8mgs per day. Does this sound correct to you? Do you think such a small dose compared to Metanx would be enough or be helpful?
Also, on the P5P should I get one that has the B2 cofactor, the P5P dont all list the B2 as in ingredient. Thanks much!!!!