Hi guys,

The doc's office called yesterday to announce the scrip for propranalol had been phoned in to my pharmacy, later my wife came in in a lot of pain and told me she had fallen next to the car and laid on the wet ground for some time before a neighbor heard her cries for help. Among more serious things is the fact that she won't be picking them up for a while,

(Few of you know anything about her except the negatives I've discussed in such detail; she suffered a stroke during a 1980 surgery, has had two unsuccessful abdominal surgeries to repair incisional hernias and is on the verge of developing a probable herniated disk in her lower back, lots of back and leg pain. She is also diabetic and very overweight

(Despite this, she has done all she could to ease my life since my last injury. I guess I'm trying to say that she isn't the totally self centered person I've described to you, that her promiscuous sex was not intended to hurt me, that I understand that intellectually but I seem totally unable to deal with my emotional response to her behavior and what I can only describe as my deliberate attempts to pretend that nothing was going on -- or touching me -- despite undenialbe evidence I simply refused to think about

(I keep talking this way because I know no one can really understand how I can be so overwhelmed; she had affairs, get over it or get out. It aint that easy, not for me at least).

Anyway, the pills are here. Now the hard part: focus upon the incident(s) that upset you then write down everything you remember about the incident(s), focusing on your thoughts and feelings at the time and since the incident(s) occured.

I have gone through nearly three years trying to avoid thinking about the incidents(s), yet obsessing over them, and diverting my attention every time they have come to mind; especially the part about my thoughts and feelings. Basically, step I is to do the one thing I want to do least.

When/if I begin this "miracle cure", I'm far from certain I will even be able to complete a small part of step I.

GnP, leaving aside your suggestions about possible alternative therapies, which are physically impossible for a bed confined patient to access, and focusing (still) only on me, it did take courage to write my original post about this.

I thought about it for a long time, finally concluding that there are a wide range of forum members, some of whom don't like me; most of whom are just plain bored with people who air their personal problems, and; some people who might see how serious this for me and who would help if they could.

At any rate, I had no choice. I would either ask the only people I know for their help or I would try to follow through with my deranged fantasy of returning to a place that had the most positive significant impact on my life and find a way to pretend I would somehow be ok.

One of the first replies shattered any hope of that fantasy (I still remember it well, Jose). No one who dislikes me has ever used my posts as a foundation for a cheap shot (I didn't think you would). I can't imagine lasting this long without the help I've gotten whenever I've asked.

I can write at this forum, either about RSD or poor me, because it is conversational, but anyone with only an undergrad degree who thinks of writing for even a minor medical journal has to take into account that they face a much higher standard. I am unable to maintain the tight, structured writing necessary because my mind is constantly interrupted by things I don't want to think about.

Thank you for your comments about my writing skill. A year ago (or so) I finally re-reread my first article on RSD as an ischemia-reperfusion injury, and can only say that I hope every last vestige of it has finally disappeared from the Internet.

It was awful. I had made A's without any serious effort on every paper I wrote in college, but I hadn't been competing against Harvard students. Since that first article, I have learned much about writing and editing, but that doesn't help much if you can't think.

That is the gist of why I have posted so often about my PROBLEM; my friends here may not understand why this has been so destructive in my life, but they know it has been. They know because when I'm not hiding, I'm talking about it.

So, to my friends: I do ask you to pray for me as I make yet another attempt to find a reason to want to live. It really is that serious, life has so little joy when you no longer want to live...Vic

Vic,

I've never met you but I know deep in my heart that I love you. If I could I would help you in any way... you have given me much strength and knowledge.

As far as your writings.... my doctor loves them. Not only has he been able to help me but he has helped other RSD patients as well by utilizing your knowledge as well. For that I say GOD BLESS YOU VIC!!!

Thank you Vic for all you do and especially for who you are!!!

Hugs.

Vic,
*Sigh.

Here we are again My Friend, and here I am, struggling to find the right words to say to you. I have lost count by now, of what numbered attempt this is for me to try to write a response to you on this thread. My thoughts are so many...and I want to say things right...and worry so much that I won't. But, here I am, going to try again. Maybe this one will make it past actually being finished, and possibly even posted? Who knows...won't know until I find out, right? LOL

I remember that "fantasy" you spoke of just now. There are lots of times that I think that I should have said things much differently than I did. While I still don't think that it would have been a good thing for you to do...maybe I shouldn't have killed it as dead as I did, as quickly as I did? I don't know. I just know that I hate to hear all of this hopelessness in your tone now....

Like I said, one of the reasons that I am having such a hard time posting to you on this particular thread, is because I have some very strong emotions about this whole issue. As you well remember, I am sure. I am sad to tell you, that they have only gotten stronger because of things that have happened since you and I used to talk so much. I have suffered too many losses all together in the past couple of years, some of which were from this very topic that you are thinking about (and one that was too damn close for comfort to being a "loss". A loss that I have been dreading and worrying about for years. I get down on my knees and thank God every day that it didn't happen....yet). So...call me selfish when I say, yet again, that I think that this is the worst way to handle things. The most selfish way....and that is from me, who is being selfish right now. Takes one to know one after all, right? I just can not stand to lose someone else that I care about. That is it, point blank, end of story. I have told you this before....I don't know how to say it any other way. Like I said, call me selfish. I don't care. I am.

I had this other post, all typed out and ready to put up here....one that would probably get me drummed out of here by some people, because of the question that I was asking you in it, and my reasons for asking (and defending my question...if that makes sense). I still think that my question has merit, the more I read of what you write about your "Problem". Thing is, I don't want to offend anyone, most of all you, and I fear greatly that my asking this question of mine would do just that, because it very well could cause some kind of theological debate, or....I don't know. "Debate" really isn't a strong enough word. I know of your past, and I know that many folks have a very strict set of beliefs that don't allow for such questions....even if they aren't meant to offend, or question anyone's beliefs, or worse; to be taken as some sort of blasphemy (that might be too strong of a word...don't know for sure). That would not be my intent at all, but I am sure that there would be folks crawling out of the woodwork telling me what an awful person I am for asking such a question, and accusing me of not believing in God, or having any faith or Godliness whatsoever. Since I don't want to cause more troubles...I don't know that asking such a thing would a good thing to do? Who knows...maybe I will yet, as I really do think that it has merit, and I honestly don't see anything wrong with it myself. (And then, there is always the possibility that I am worrying way too much about the whole thing, and that it wouldn't upset anyone so greatly, but only mildly irritate them, or just make them disgusted with me and think me ignorant, or some such. LOL...I have been known to over react sometimes..or worry too much...Right?)

So, I will try to figure out something else to say, instead. At least for now. Especially since this last post of yours is asking for help finding a reason to want to live.

You have already acknowledged that you are depressed. Since you know that, you also know how depression can suck all of the "good" out of everything that we say, try to do, or even think. I think that might be the case with your writing (among other things). The feeling that I am getting from this last post of yours is that you feel that your writing is somehow inadequate, because you have "only an undergraduate degree". Coming from a family that is steeped in academia, I can understand being uneasy about this. But, the fact is that it is possible to do a great many things, and to write and be published where ever you want to be, without the post graduate degrees. I am not saying that it is easy....by no means am I saying that. I am simply saying that it is possible. You have to keep telling yourself that it is so.

I don't know a writer yet that actually likes to go back and re-read their earlier works. Shoot..some of them don't even like reading their new works. If it isn't that your data was corrupted, but just your writing style that you have a complaint about.....well....that is perfectly natural. Even my father, the PhD Guy, will cringe when some of his earlier papers and articles turn up. And you know what? He has gotten things published that have gotten acclaims, only to find out later that the data was wrong. Or the study, or whatever. It happens. So, what I am trying to tell you is that I am not surprised that you don't like your earlier articles. Even though so many people have read them, and have used the info in them (yes...there are folks that have heeded your warnings and advice, and do use the GSE and say that they are all the better for it), I am not surprised that you find them awful. But, you have to keep in mind all of the people that you have already helped. People that don't even post here or on BT anymore, because they are doing so much better. Isn't THAT a reason to want to keep on living?

So...work on your writing, and improve it in whatever ways that you think it needs to be improved. You have a harder time than most other people that write such things, because they at least have colleagues that they can ask to go over their findings, to help check facts and figures, to even help to proof read (yes..even Professors make horrible grammar mistakes sometimes! LOL, and some can't spell worth a CRAP!). They can bounce ideas and such off of other people, and get insights into their writings that way. You don't have such a luxury, since you don't have a dept you are working with, or a bunch of doctors, or other such colleagues to work with or bounce ideas off of, or even to have work with you in some capacity or another.

Basically what I am saying, is that what you are doing is a good thing, and that it is doable, and that it will take you some time to get it done in a way that you like and are comfortable enough with to put out there for journals and what not to look at and consider for publishing. TIME is the key factor here...something that I don't think that you want to hear...but that I am going to say to you at any chance that I get. I will say it because it is true, and because (don't forget...) I am selfish.

The other reasons that I have for you "wanting to live" are the ones that I have said to you time and time again; you have so very many people that care about you, and your loss would cause each and every one of us unbearable pain that would be there for the rest of our lives. I know that in your depressive state, it is easy for you to think "Oh. My family (and friends) will be better off without the burden of myself around to tie them down, or hold them back, or to keep having to worry about and do for..." etc. Vic....nothing could be farther from the truth. You are educated enough to know that what those thoughts are, is simply the Depression talking and messing with your head. You know how it works. It warps how we see things, and more than anything, how we think and feel. To loose you would devastate your family. You know that, somewhere deep inside. And, you also know that this kind of wound IS NOT one that will "Just go away over time", and that they WILL NOT be able to "Forget about it" and/or "Move on with their lives". You know this.....but you don't WANT to know it. You are having people here in this very thread tell you it is so, from their own personal experiences (Lisa M, and now me). Are you saying that you would rather listen to the depression than to people that are telling you that they love and care about you, and would suffer greatly from your loss, and can pretty much give you a good clue about how your family will suffer also?

*Sigh. I am sorry...I told you that my emotions about this are still very strong, and have only become stronger over the past couple of years. I don't want to cause another rift between us.....because I really think that is what happened, and what caused it in the first place. So, I will try to tone things down...Ok? But, Vic...you know me. I will not lie to you, nor will I say that something is "Ok" or agree with something that I don't think is right. I can't pretend that this all is "Ok", because the thought is just too painful...and scary to me. And, I am being a very selfish person.

I think that you have many things to live for. You have your work to be done. You have the thought of the many people you have already helped, and the many more that can be helped if you continue on with your work/writing/research. You have your Family that loves you dearly (I mean...your son is awesome. So many people would give their eyeteeth for such a son that would stand up for their dad [or mom] in such a way! Your other kids too. And their kids....so many people that love you and need you, and can learn courage and strength and SURVIVAL from you! Have you thought of it that way??), and....you have us; the people here who love and care about, and need you too. Like Me.

Aren't those good reasons?

Anyway...LOL..looks like I wrote you yet another "Brief Note" here. It actually looks like this one might even make getting finished, and possibly posted! Hurrah! I have been trying, and trying to post here to you for days now...and like I said at the beginning of this "note", I have lost count of the number of times I have tried to get something written here on this thread to you.

I hope that I haven't said anything that has upset you. I have missed you, so much, and I don't want to have said anything that would cause another rift between us (if that is indeed what happened before? Our "disagreement" on this very topic? That is what I keep coming back to, because it seems that after that, we just kinda sorta drifted apart, as neither one knew what to say to the other? Do you remember it the same?). If I have learned nothing else over these past couple of years, I have learned that time is much too short, and that you never know what will happen, and when you will turn around to find out that it is too late to say all the things that you always wanted to say, but never had the chance. I have learned that sometimes Miracles DO happen, and fences get mended, and lost loved ones found....sometimes because of a terrifying, too close for comfort near tragedy that serves as an eye opener or wake up call, or whatever. A sign from God, if you will; A second chance, too precious to be wasted. I have learned to take opportunities to make sure that the people that I care about KNOW that I care about them....because...well...I want to be sure that they know that. And, I cherish each and every one. That includes you, my Dear Old Friend. We have known each other for way too long to let so much time go without talking or communicating. I have needed you...and I think that you have needed, if not me, then at least some more friendship? Everyone can use friends. I already knew that, but I know it so much better now.

Ok....now that I have gotten all...I don't know what you call it? Philosophical? Not really. There is some kind of "sophical" or at least "ical" word out there to describe it. One that is escaping me right now (LOL, nothing new there, huh?). I think that it is past time for me to wind this now VERY Brief Note up. Maybe I will get around to asking you my other question some time later. I have to give that some more thought.

Be good to yourself. Be careful. You have lots of folks that care.

Much love and many ((hugs))
Jose <-- the quiet shy one that doesn't talk a lot. LOL

Hi again Jose,

First, nothing you have ever said led to a rift between us. I withdrew from the forum and from everyone and offended many people, and for that, I'm sorry. At the time, it wasn't a matter of choice; it was a combination of my PROBLEM, and my rapidly deteriorating physical that led, in just months, from when I could still walk 25 steps to the bathroom to needing a power wheel chair to make that trip.

My doc is an excellent neuro, but we both know there is nothing he can do for me except "medication management". Neurosurgeons see patients referred for possible, determines whether surgery is appropriate, discharges non-surgical candidates back to their PCP, operates on the others and then discharges them. He has continued to see me for ten years because wc had a doc who was saying I was malingering and he knew that under those circumstances I would have a big problem finding a physician willing to prescribe the dosages of pain meds he knew I needed. Later, the wc law judge appointed him as my physician and entered an order that wc could not refuse to pay for any prescription he wrote.

Since he only sees me for med management and knows my condition will continue to deteriorate, he does not perform any routine examination. If I requested him to, he would, but I have not found any reason to make a request.

Since he only sees me fully dressed, and just every three months, he did not notice my weight loss; neither did I. By the time my weight had dropped from around 175# to 153# and we began to discuss it as a problem, we agreed I needed to start focusing on eating more.

I thought I was eating more, but after 4 months my weight had dropped to 139# and we began treating it as an emergency. You have read my story from there; my weight loss rate dropped to 1# per month and nothing he, two dieticians he referred me to, or I am able to do has been able to affect that.

This leads to part 2: suicide. I have no plan to end my life unless it is learned my weight loss is a symptom of a disease requiring surgery, which I wan't choose, and the disease reaches the terminal stage and hospitalization is required.

I don't need to put a gun under my chin, I am doing a good job of killing myself by slow starvation.

This leads to part 3: what to do next? I interrupted a truly magnificant Joselita size series of posts about something that happened shortly before midnight; something that led me to decide my survival requires that I leave my wife. That's nothing new, I've decided to leave her at least a dozen times; wimping out each time.

(Lisa, something you said just struck home this moment, your friend who can't leave her husband because he'd be totally lost. I think I believe that about my wife, and she has reinforced this by either beginning to show signs of psychotic thinking or behavior, or more recently, telling me that if I leave, she will kill herself).

I may wimp out again this time, but something has changed; my realization that I will have to leave or I will die. If I wimp out now, no one will see that post, but I will leave soon.

OK, I need to say something about last night: I posted earlier that my wife had fallen yesterday, but don't think I've mentioned that my grandson and his fiance have been living here for free for four months in return for caring for me and doing the housework for my wife. They have only barely kept up their end of the bargain.

Yesterday I told his fiance that my wife fall had created a crisis and we would need one of them available all the time throughout the weekend.
She told me she was leaving for Mexico on Saturday morning.

When my grandson got home from work (he started a job about 3 weeks ago), I told him he would have to be available all the time throughout the weekend. He told me he and his fiance had to go to her grandmothers house Sunday to celebrate an early Christmas before she left for Mexico.

I very softly thanked him for his time and he left the room. I had had enough. After waiting until the worst of my anger subsided, I decided I would phone wc, tell them I needed full time care now or I would admit myself to a hospital, and kick my grandson and his fiance out as soon as wc found someone to provide full time care.

I phoned my wife on our intercom (a gift from Sean), and told her of my decision. She reminded me that she had a voice in this too, and she couldn't let me do that. I told her 'ok, then either they go or I go'. She began to cry and asked

"Why are you doing this to me?"

I thought for a moment, then told her 'ok, I surrender, I always do'. I hung up and decided I would leave. This time I have a plan:

I will sneak out as soon as I find the opportunity (I can't risk a confrontation), drive as far as I can, report myself as a victim of elderly neglect and need hospitalization. I will let wc deal with it from there. I will phone my doc, tell his nurse I have admitted myself and request he contact the hospital and confirm the medical need. I have absolutely no doubt that he will.

I will then put in for early retirement, choose the 50% lump-sum option, and wait until they complete the process (the last day of Feb). When I'm ready, I will phone my wife, tell her what I've done and offer her the choice of getting the car back while I get the furniture I need, or I keep the car. I can't use a car, I am too unsafe to drive.

There are other details; she will get half the lump-sum and half the total income but must apply for SSI and appeal any adverse decision. If I decide she is not pursuing SSI the way she should, I will stop paying her and we can let a judge decide.

As a precaution against wimping out, I phoned wc at 8 AM and told my worker that I needed full time help now or I would have to admit myself to a hospital. She phoned back and told me she had found someone, but she couldn't start until Monday morning. I made it clear to her that while it was deeply humiliating to demand full time care when there are two healthy adults in the house, I felt I had no choice if I was to survive.

Another factor arose while writing my "Jose size" series of posts: when I wrote about the specific event that led to my PROBLEM, just typing the words caused me to vomit. There is no way I will be able to complete step 1 of my My "miracle cure". I either leave or I slowly starve myself to death.

As I have been writing this, other necessaries for successfully leaving have come to mind. I hope that it will take only a week to solve these problems and any others that might come to mind. This means that I will have to think about my "Jose post".

I am leaving. I hope that step will resolve my PROBLEM, but I'm sure that staying will aggrevate my weight loss. I finally learned my real value in the home that my checks provide...Vic

PS: I am going to take the unusual (for me) step of not reviewing this post or correcting any grammatical, syntax or spelling errors. I am weak, tired, physically sick and filled with hope,

Hi Vic,

I didn't want this post to disappear off the page...I'm digesting the contents. But what will you do about a place to live? Can the public services help with that?
Very glad to see the phrase "filled with hope" coming from you; don't do anything too rash please...something does need to be done, though...

xx all the best.

Hi all,

Many of you will be glad to read this will probably be my last post on my PROBLEM, at least for a while. Those who have talked about your real concerns for me will be happy to read that it is pretty much upbeat.

Abaski, thank you for your nice words. Those of you who have posted similar sentiments on other threads where I've posted; I know your words were meant to show that you care about me, but I'm probably not going to make sainthood. Ya gotta die first and I'm working very hard to put that day off. Second, in thuth I'm a crothchety old man.

Jose, I don't think you could ask a question that would anger me; I might argue with you, but it would be arguing with a friend. And I won't use the "Jose thread" phrase anymore, I promise.

Artist, Pat, point well taken. I did have a plan; it wasn't a great, or even good, plan, but it was the best I could do at the moment. OK, it was a dumb plan. I realized that when I was too weak to raise my arm Friday afternoon.

I'm not going to accomplish anything in a week or two, I feel I have only one chance of succeeding, so it has to be well planned and executed. So I'm a coward; when I decided to leave in '83 or '84, she came at me from behind with a 26oz glass coke bottle, my daughter screamed just in time for me to react and take it on the shoulder. She has only been violent once since then, but I don't want a big scene or to get hurt, so I will leave in the dark.

One reason I hope this will be my last post about this is that I really wanted one person to truly understand how much pain I'm in and this is truly a life or death situation. I think I finally got through to him. "Him is me", and I credit writing these posts with helping me learn that truth.

I saw that once I began posting here, I had quietly slipped back into my old habit of not eating unless I was hungry. I can't do that; I have to be uncomfortably overfull in order to keep my weight loss down to a pound a month, I have to eat even more if I'm going to gain weight. That will take time.

I will get my lump-sum retirement check on Feb 28 and will have all the money I need to move and buy furniture. Unfortunately, Feb 28 will mark our 42nd anniversary, and she is going to feel violated as it is; so March 15 or so seems a better idea.

Since my decision I have fewer thoughts and feelings, but that has happened before; when I finished a forgiveness program I was great for nearly a month. Still, I hope this decision might free me, if I follow through with it, and I plan to start working on my article again. I have three full months, and that is more than enough time for anyone.

If I can finish it, it will be strong evidence that I made the right decision. If I don't, it will mean that leaving may be my last chance to get better. Either way, I'm leaving. I have been too unhappy for too long. I want to be happy again, but I'll settle for not being this miserable.

(BTW, so no on will accuse me of being a selfish pig, she will get half of the lump-sum and half of my checks; but she will have to apply for SSI and make any necessary appeals. If she should decide to get even by not doing that, or not acting vigorously enough, the settlement will allow me to file to terminate payments to her.

(I don't know how to do stuff like this, so I will make sure the lawyer I choose has actual experience in it. We're not the only two cripples to have divorced in these circumstances).

Since I was about 30, I have tried to be honest with everyone (except myself), and am more than a little uncomfortable living a lie now, acting as if nothing has changed, and find little comfort in telling myself that if she had not lived a lie earlier in our marriage this would never have happened. But I remind myself that if I don't do something for me, I will probably continue to lose weight. Even at only 1# per month, at 130# the rest of my life can probably be measured in months.

I probably won't be posting nearly as often, what with my plans to work on my article, make arrangements and focus on overeating, but I will try to put in a word or so now and then to reassure my friends (some of whom I don't even know), that I'm still alive...Vic

PS: "Filled with hope" was exxageration; "Finally feeling hopeful" is more accurate.

Vicc -

You have, Sir, the courage of your convictions, something I can't say that I have always had. You will land (softly enough) on your feet.

Mike

That is the wonderful thing about this place, you can be having the roughest place in your life, and you are not going through it alone. We can lean on each other as we go down the RSD path of life.

Just knowing this is soooo comforting to me.

It is good to hear about that spark of hope you have bro, I believe it will grow bigger than a spark. You have a pretty good plan too, and Im pretty sure that you will feel much better after you make the move. Maybe then it wont be such a pain to

Love ya man :icon_wink:

Allen