Hi Gloria,
I know what you mean when you say worse pain you could get. I have walked in your shoes. I have had 6 spinal surgeries, and 7 fusions now. Some of mine didn't take either. My doc said he really studied my case before my last surgery Sept. 5 th. He was going to use titaium again and I reminded him that he had to go in and take it out in a year. So he told me the day of surgery he wasn't going to put anything in but artificial bone. He had used my bone three times and it just crumbled away. This is some kind of new stuff they mix. I know what he called it, but I can't spell it. It can take up to a year to heal. Right now I am sitting on a gel pk. from the freezer to kill the pain. I will not take much of their pain meds. I have went back to driving and am not doing to bad for in the past I was using a walker at this stage. Their seems to be no easy road. Even now, I have to see another Dr. for he thinks I need hernia repair and doc made me this appointment tomorrow. I sure don't want more, for I'm not healed from this one yet!

I too, have leg pain.Mine starts at the groin and goes to my knee. It is about a 10 on the pain scale. I thought the back sugery would take care of it but it didn't. That's why I got to see this other Dr. What a bumber.

Your surgery was very large to be done all at once. I never heard of that much all at once like that. I have had all of those same fusions tho. I don't blame you not wanting anymore. I do wish you the best of luck.
Blessings,
Billie

Gloria, I have not seen any posts from you since I found this site. I am sorry you are feeling so bad. I remember the updates on your surgery, and thought you were so brave to go through that! Does the doctor tell you why he thinks you are not fusing?

I had my fusion done at L5 S1 in July, have had 2 sets of x-rays taken, one last week, and my doctor says it is too early to tell if I am fusing. Then I see posts on people who know after 3 weeks post-op. So this kind of scares me. How can they tell?

Gloria, I hope things get better for you. You have gone through too much to not feel better! Have you used a bone stimulator? I did not get one, but know many who did, and thought that it helped.

Billie, it seems you have good days and bad days, but you always keep your positive attitude, and your faith. You are an inspiration! How are things coming with the sale of the farm and the house?

I hope all of the recovering from surgery people do better recovering. It is always nice to come here and see posts from you guys, even though it may not be good news. It's just nice to have someone to talk to that knows exactly what you are talking about!

Carolyn

Carolyn and Liza, (I love those names!)

I had a cervical fusion last August. He fused C 4-5, 5-6, 6-7. He took ex-rays at six weeks and told me I was starting to fuse and showed me how they could tell. To be real honest, I could not see it, but if he said I was fusing it was good enough for me. I felt good and the pain was gone. At three months he said I was completely fused.

Unfortunately, I started having problems in May and set up an appt with him. My OS thought it was cervical so he sent me back to my OSS. We did an MRI and I now show changes and degeneration at C2-3, 3-4, and T1-T-4. In truth, we new C3-4 was problamatic, but it was not symptomatic so I think for that reason he left it alone. I see him in two weeks...I think he is just going to keep an eye on things for now...

Anyway...He did not think my symptoms matched the MRI so he sent me back to my OS. My OS sent me for an MRI of the shoulder. I have a rotator cuff tear in the right shoulder and arthritis in the AC joint. I need surgery in the right shoulder and right thumb for arthritis in the basal joint.

I called my pcp last week to ask a question about my daughter and burst into tears when talking to the nurse about these new problems. I told her I would not care if these surgeries actually corrected what they were supposed to and we felt much better afterwards, but I am am just afraid of having the surgery and then not feeling better. The hand surgeon told me the thumb will be as "good" as it gets after the surgery and he is supposed to be the best.

Carolyn, Yes I am wearing a bone stimulator twenty-four hours a day. I just hope it is the right size for such a large surgery.

I was talking to a friend and we were discussing the fact that many of us seem to have rotator cuff tears after these surgeries....The surgeon I saw last week about my hand seemed to think I have one in both shoulders, though my OS only had the one shoulder ex-rayed. I have been having problems with both...

Billie, What did they do when your fusions did not take? Originally, one surgeon I saw wanted to do a bone on bone fusion, but people told me not to allow that type fusion because it would not work, but it sounds like that is what your doctor did in the end? Did he remove the Titanium and pack it with bone? I absolutely cannot imagine going through this ever again.

It is so good to be able to talk to people again who understand what we have been through, isn't it?

Hi Gloria & Carolyn,
Gloria, I can't tell you exactally what My OS done. He did refuse me. It was called Morific Or something like that. They get bone out of the Bone Bank and it is ground up or chipped up. Anyway, it is mixed with something else and then put in. If someone knows what the correct word is, please correct me. I am sure I don't have it spelled right. The titanium I was allergic to, so my body just covered it with scar tissue. Just what my OS did, I don't know. I am going to ask about the stimulator he removed too. I bet it was covered with Scar T. too. I just let him do as he pleases Gloria. He has studied
all over the world. His bio says: he studied in Switzerland, Italy, France, Hong Kong, and Singapore plus the US. I just trust him. He knows all about me for he has done all my surgeries but one.

Carolyn, I have several interested in our farm. I have several things to look into to be sure things are handled correctly. I am sure I can get a house too. it's just a matter of time. So I am being patient and trying to rest all I can. It will come out ok in the end so why worry. I have tried that & it don't work. Thanks for caring though. It is a big responseability.
Billie

Billie,

I think the word is morphogenic....I may not have it spelled right either...I will look it up later...but I think that is what you are referring to...I am certain both my surgeons, well I know the first for certain used it in my cervical fusion. I am not certain about the second, but I would be shocked if he did not....They took my rib out for the lumbar fusion and used that as well so they should have had plenty of bone....Good grief...Billie...God certainly has given you a heavy load to carry....You are in my prayers...

This thread is awfully depressing. It reinforces in my mind that I am at the beginning of a journey with pain, not at the end. I hate that idea.

I understand that the artificial bone, BMP, bone matrix protein, or bone morphogenic protein, heals and fuses better than bone grafts. But I'm not fused yet. My OSS doesn't seem concerned, and in the articles I read on outcomes of spinal fusion, it seemed that whether or not the surgery was a success had no relationship with whether the xrays showed fusion. It was odd.

I don't know at how many months a fusion is considered a failure, or what they do then. Do they leave in the hardware expecting that it will be enough to hold the spine steady? I thought the reason for using bone or bmp was because the titanium can't be expected to hold a lifetime, but the bone can.

Anyway, I guess I"m better than before the surgery. The synovial cyst I had and arthritis caused pretty severe spinal stenosis, and I couldn't walk more than a couple of blocks. I can now. While my back aches, and "catches", I can be more active than before. My complaint is that I'm not back to "normal" as I'd expected to be, not that I'm not improved. This pain is clearly different than the pre-op pain. I'd like it to be gone--it's amazing how much more energy and cheerfulness I have on days when the pain is low, or I've taking oxycodone---and it's not.

LizaJane

LizaJane,

You were told something different than me. I asked why we do not fuse and at first I was told they do not know. Then I was told that sometimes they use too much BMP....If that is the case then they have to go in make things right so that you fuse. I was told at the last visit that I am still in so much pain because I am not fusing.

I still have much of the same pain that I had pre-surgery. I went grocery shopping with my husband today. He does all of the work, while I simply walk along. I still have sciatica which is very painful. I am now getting the pain in both hips again making it very painfu to walk. My legs and feet start to ache after walking about ten to fifteen minutes so much of my pain is very much like what I had pre-surgery and it makes me feel very depressed. They put me back on Topamax about three weeks ago because of the leg and feet pain. I think they think that must be nerve damage. My pcp wanted me to use Neurontin this time, but I know what Topamax does and did not want to switch.

The last few days my pain is so bad that I am taking extra meds, so this needs to be explained as well. I almost called my PM doc this morning to ask him if we could sit down and discuss other pain control methods because what I am using is not working as well. I just decided to take some extra breakthrough meds instead.

I have always been told that I will never be pain free. I have accepted that, but I wanted to have things be a lot better than they were before the surgery. I do not think I would do another surgery though...It would depend on a lot of things...like loss of life issues...

Do you have the cages? Do the cages move? Or are they in there forever? If they are, then I have nothing to worry about...

Thanks LizaJane & Gloria, for spelling morphogenic for me. I do think you are right. I have had a bad day today. Lots of pain from surgery and the left leg pain had me out of bed at 6:30 this morning. I hate spasms and they were in both legs part of the day.Then the numbness started in from standing. I have had it for two years.
Girls, I don't think there is an end to all this pain. My first surgery was in 91 and it is much worse now than. It was only a severe bulging disc pressing on the Spinal Cord.
Gloria I don't know much about cages. One OSS told me why bother when there are screws. I also know of one in our church, that the screws wore bigger holes in the rods and they had to go back in and put bigger screws in. I saw the ones they took out for they let him have them, and they were big.That may be what they do when fusion doesn't heal. Just a guess. He is now having more problems.

I believe the Dr's do try to relieve your pain. Mine have been sincere and he really studies my case. He brought it before 5 other Dr's trying to come up with good decisions. If we only knew all the years of study and the long hours they put in. Then we go to them because the pain is bad, it's no wonder they try to help us. I do hope someday there is a answer for all the pain we are going threw. That's about all I can say.
Good Luck friends,
Fancylady

LizaJane, I hope you are not too depressed! I do not know much about fusing and timing, and would like to find out more about it. My OS took more x-rays last week, but said it is too early to tell if I am fusing. I was almost 8 weeks post-surgery, too.
I am glad you have improved, and hope that you continue that way. I was told this requires a lot of patience, more than what we anticipated! Before I got serious about having the fusion, my OS told me it could take 9 months to a year to heal. I planned on 3 months off of work, and 3 months of light duty. Now, I am working 4 hours a day. My mental state needed it so bad!
The depression got to me, too! BAD!

When was your surgery? And did the Faulkenrais(SP) stop working for you? It sounded so reasonable. Our bodies do so much compensating, especially after what we have all been through! We end up overusing muscles and body parts that are not used to being used, and they let us know about it!

Billie and Gloria, how are you doing? I hope all of you are having a better day today. I don't know how the weather is where you live, but we have had beautiful, cool sunny days here. It certainly helps the mental part.

Gloria, if a fusion does not happen, is it necessary to have surgery again, or is this an "IF"? Did your doctor give you a time frame as to how long he will give the bones a chance to fuse? This seems like such a grey area, it's almost a little scary.

Billie, when is your surgery for your hernia? You will have to let us know so we can all keep you in our prayers! It would be nice if we could come help you out, too. We will have to just keep sending cyber well wishes to each other, and big cyber ((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))!
Carolyn

Carolyn--I had the surgery in february, and took off 4 weeks from work. When I went back, I worked fewer hours, but I went to physical therapy twice a week, which took a chunk of time. The Feldenkrais helped a great deal at the beginning, and I think it is still helping, although the improvements are much smaller and don't last as long as when I began it. My practitioner is suggested buying audiotapes to do some work at home between visits to her.

How much pain do you have at this point? I find it manageable; I just wish it gone.

LizaJane