[Lara]

I was just reading something in what is perhaps a paper... Christianity Today. I'm not sure really because I'm not actually Christian myself, however that never stopped me reading and learning about what others believe in.

Last night I was actually looking for something in particular for a friend of ours here, but came across this instead... Reminded me of the poem Alffe posted in another thread called "Listen".

Trauma and Recovery, Judith Herman writes,

Beyond the issues of shame and doubt, traumatized people struggle to arrive at a fair and reasonable assessment of their conduct, finding a balance between unrealistic guilt and denial of all moral responsibility. In coming to terms with issues of guilt, the survivor needs the help of others who are willing to recognize that a traumatic event has occurred, to suspend their preconceived judgments, and simply to bear witness to her tale. When others can listen without ascribing blame, the survivor can accept her own failure to live up to ideal standards at the moment of extremity. Ultimately, she can come to a realistic judgment of her conduct and a fair attribution of responsibility.

Survivors need time and space to come to a realistic self-assessment. I trust that for me, the crucible will forge a better person, and lead to peace.

Please don't read the whole article if you are feeling particularly vunerable at the moment. However, I shall post it here.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/...ril/27.38.html
In the Valley of the Shadow of Suicide
A mother catches glimmers of hope after losing a son.
Christine A. Scheller | posted 4/24/2009 11:02AM

[DMACK]

Thank you so much Laura for this post...............i emplore pepole to read this and the link.

Lara.........i have said many times on this forum...........SUICIDE is a momentary and iratic act.........one lead /instigated and performed via an unwell mind.............

As for the desciption of THE peace before the storm [suicide calm]..........SO TRUE.....

Maybe i've always advocated momentary maddness for the act of Suicide......because i truly believe thats what it is.............

In times of sheer terror of life its self......when you feel like the preverbial rat..trapped in a barrel..knowing the cat is on its way in......PEOPLE FREEZE/SWITCH OFF FROM REALITY/ACT IRRATIONALY/TAKE DRASTIC ACTIONS............Fear is the greatest motive IMO for suicide.....that can be fear of rejection , if you tell someone your inner thoughts, not being believed that your demons are real....most of all the fear of not being able to do what society expects...GET A GRIP/PULL YOUR SELF TOGETHER/YOU CAN GET THROUGH THIS ETC.........................


Suicide pervention IMHO...begins with breaking down this awful TABOO.... people dont tell friends & loved ones they want to die......because they do not want to be scorned..ridiculed..even COMMITTED....................THEY want to express their turmoil, sadness, hoplessness, desperation,.....all the things we as humans rarely share with those we care for.....................

When i was in the Royal Navy many moons ago.........a fellow service man....attempted suicide...[took pills, he survived....many said it was not a serious attempt, he was attention seeking, a coward etc...............the sad thing was this young man like me..
.had joined the Royal Navy because his father was a Comadore[high ranking officer]...........he expected his son to join...the lad ...refused to go in through officer training but join the rank and file............[to annoy his father]......but he desperately did not want to be there....he did it out of an obligation..............his attempted suicide got him a medical discharge...............i dont know what happened to him after............but i hope he made a life for himself...............independent of other peoples expectations.?

I also know of a man 42 yeares old....who to the world was a perfect gentleman..good husband...great father.......WHO .hung himself completely out of the blue............only at his funeral did his family realise he had been made redundant...yet for the three weeks before his death continued to act as though he was going to work, and acting in their eyes completely normal.


It is impossible to know the inner thoughts of anyone...........impossible...........

Yet thats what makes it harder for those left behind.

Lara i applaud you posting this thread..............thank you.......

Suicide is a thought in the human mind, if the thought is not shared....it can become an action.......too some the last action they ever do...for others.....a possibility of addressing the thought.

FOR GOD SAKE SHARE THE THOUGHT...

DAVID

[Doody]

Originally Posted by DMACK

Suicide pervention IMHO...begins with breaking down this awful TABOO.... people dont tell friends & loved ones they want to die......because they do not want to be scorned..ridiculed..even COMMITTED....................THEY want to express their turmoil, sadness, hoplessness, desperation,.....all the things we as humans rarely share with those we care for.....................

...so true.

I have many thoughts rolling around in my head and don't know how to, or don't want to, express them. You've done a good job with some of it for me ((David)).

I know time and again people have said this forum is for anyone touched by suicide, but I have never felt comfortable coming right out and saying, for instance, "the urge yesterday to cut my throat was overwhelming". I wouldn't want people in here who are questioning the suicides of loved ones to get upset.

But I do have those. And when one of those thoughts hits, it hits with the crescendo of an ocean wave. Obviously, I've made it to the other side.

I do think suicides are often a spur of the moment act but...preceded by thoughts of suicide over an intederminate amount of time. Sorry if that doesn't make sense. Somehow it does to me.

[Alffe]

doody I don't think there's a one of us who hasn't felt that way at sometime or another in this life. What I generally do when I am wishing I were dead, is pm Lara, who always picks me up and makes me feel better. Why don't you pm me and we'll see if I can "say" the right thing when you need it. just because you don't tell me how you feel, doesn't mean I don't suspect it. I love you.

[Doody]

...but, as David said, you hide it from others. and I love you too.

[Alffe]

You're right, I don't post it on a public forum but I do tell someone...usually Mr.Alffe but occasionally Barbo or Lara. *grin

I'd hate to trigger anyone...I don't think it's hiding it if you tell someone how you feel.

How's otto today?

[Alffe]

Excellent article! Articles, cause I read some of the links too. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/...y10/30.61.html
Thank you Lara.

[BJ]

Sometimes it's too painful David to share the thought. Sometimes you're too depressed to even commit suicide. Then you start feeling better, then you feel good enough to make plans and carry them out. I know this doesn't make sense but I've been there.

The night Mark hung himself my dad was the one who took him down and put him on his bed. The police came and asked a few questions but no one could really talk at the time, we were all in such shock.

After the funeral the police came back and talked to us one at a time. They drilled us with the normal questions about drugs, alcohol, mood changes, lack of interest, trouble with friends or school. All these were no. Mark didn't show any of these signs.

After I got older I started on my quest to try to figure out why. I've read almost every book imaginable about suicide. I have a book called "The Calm Before the Storm" by Catherine Traff. She describes in it when the decision to commit suicide is made.

I never told my mom I read that book because, looking back, Mark made up his mind several weeks before, he knew what he was doing. I couldn't tell my mom because she would have been devastated. She kept saying he just flipped out and lost it. She never knew that he left me a note either. I couldn't put her through that. She deserved better than that.

He did seem calmer, not so stressed about baseball or school. Gosh he was even super nice to me. We squabbled like all siblings do but he was different, for lack of a better word.

But to think he'd actually do it. It still baffles me. Talk about the "ultimate.........." I was the last one to see him alive, the last one he talked to. I would never in my wildest dreams believe he would do such a thing. And I'd better stop.

[DMACK]

Dear BJ

Thank you for sharing that..........i can hear Your pain as you write........

But your story like many others.....i promise you...will enter the minds of some readers out there ......and prevent suicide..............and .comfort...those experiencing similar circumstances. to yourself
....and above all it LET's YOUR THOUGHTS OUT.

An ex war vetran who was a prisoner of war described his incarceration, as intolerable beyond words.....he said the thought of possible death was always more comforting, than remaining trapped and helpless within the camp.....He escaped 3 times from German prisoner of war camps......each time knowing death could be his ultimate punishment...........The end of the war ultimately saved his life.............

Those who suffer suicidal thoughts often pre-plan, others are Recklessly spontaneuoes,...but unlike the above story.........only the person suffering these thoughts ...truly .knows what they are trying to escape..........
MOUNTAINS & MOLEHILLS

David

[BJ]

Yes David that was very painful for me to write. Somethings I don't even realize until I write them down. That's why my pdoc is so insistent to keep journaling. It would have been so much easier if it wasn't thought out. That's what I've always had a hard time understanding. He was a kid for goodness sake.

The Catcher in the Rye is a book everyone has read. I remember falling in love with this speech and realized it was so fitting for Mark.

"This fall I think you're riding for - it's a special kind of fall, a horrible kind. The man falling isn't permitted to feel or hear himself hit bottom. He just keeps falling and falling. The whole arrangement's designed for men who, at some time or other in their lives, were looking for something their own environment couldn't supply them with. Or they thought their own environment couldn't supply them with. So they gave up looking. They gave it up before they ever really even got started."

Just substitute boy for man because he never got started on the road to manhood.