[Mytoothhurts2]

Hi, I'm new here and it's a bit of a long story but I am in a world of pain and hoping someone can help.

About 2 months ago, I had my lower left impacted wisdom tooth extracted. I lost the clot within the first couple of days but it wasn't a dry socket just healed a little slowly and I had some jaw soreness that seemed to improve over time. Christmas eve I had the tooth next to the wisdom tooth extraction site were the wisdom tooth had been impacting filled. I did ask the dentist if the extraction site looked healed enough to do the filling and he told me it " looked good " . The filling gave me nothing but trouble from the beginning - you could see just by looking at it the the dentist had built the tooth up to be a lot bigger than the original tooth - the filling was especially sensitive to hot and cold and biting down. When I called the dentist's office (my dentist was by now on holiday ) and they read his notes they told me it may be the wisdom tooth extraction site as it was inflamed and I had gingivitis there on the day of the filling - the dentist made no mention of this to me.

Anyway, I have been back to the dentist office twice where junior dentists have ground it down to what now feels normal but I still have pain in my jaw. The pain is now mainly spontaneous and not so much set off by temperature and not at all by pressure. The junior dentist did say the filling is quite close to the pulp. A couple of days after the filling I started on Amoxicillin as I also developed tonsillitis, an after hours doctor then swapped me to penicillin VK. This morning I went to my GP as I was in pain and dizzy and she says some of my pain is in my glands rather than my jaw and has now swapped me over to Clindamycin. She didn't seem to think there was an abscess but suggested I go back to the oral surgeon - which I can't get into until Friday.

My face is only slightly swollen on that side but I've just woken up at 5 am because of the pain. Does anyone have clue about what may be going on? Nerve pain? Jaw infection? Is it the extraction site or the filled tooth? I do think a little bit of it is TMJ but there is something else going on too.

Oh, and I must mention that one of the upper premolars on the same side was re - root canaled back in October and still had the temp filling when I got the wisdom tooth extracted. With the extraction, the root canaled tooth became the most painful tooth in my mouth so it has been left with the temp filling to settle - it seems to get referred pain from the other 2 teeth that are currently in pain. Otherwise my teeth are all good, other than minor fillings to date the only work I had had done was that 1 root canal. I am 50 years old.

Thanks for any assistance.

[Bryanna]

Hi Mytoothhurts2,

I am in the dental field and can offer you some information here. By now you may have already been back to your dentist.

I will re post some of your thread and answer you in bold type.

<<About 2 months ago, I had my lower left impacted wisdom tooth extracted. I lost the clot within the first couple of days but it wasn't a dry socket just healed a little slowly and I had some jaw soreness that seemed to improve over time.>>

THE FORMATION AND RETENTION OF THE BLOOD CLOT IS NECESSARY TO PROTECT THE BONE FROM BACTERIA AND INFECTION. SO IF THE CLOT DID NOT FORM PROPERLY OR IT DISLODGE EARLY ON WITHIN THE FIRST FEW DAYS THEN THE BONE WAS VULNERABLE TO BACTERIA. I MENTION THIS BECAUSE OF WHAT SEEMS TO HAVE PROCEEDED SINCE THAT TIME.

<< The filling gave me nothing but trouble from the beginning - you could see just by looking at it the the dentist had built the tooth up to be a lot bigger than the original tooth - the filling was especially sensitive to hot and cold and biting down.>>

THE DENTIST MAY HAVE MISJUDGED THE CIRCUMFERENCE OF THIS FILLING BECAUSE OF THE EMPTY SPACE FROM THE RECENT EXTRACTION OF THE WISDOM TOOTH. SIMPLY BECAUSE THE CIRCUMFERENCE OF A NEW FILLING NEEDS TO FIT IN ACCORDANCE TO THE ADJACENT TEETH AND THE BITE. THE TEMPERATURE SENSITIVITY IS NORMAL FOR A NEW FILLING, ESPECIALLY IF IT WAS LARGE AND/OR DEEP. HOWEVER THAT SHOULD NOT LINGER FOR MORE THAN A WEEK OR SO.

<< When I called the dentist's office (my dentist was by now on holiday ) and they read his notes they told me it may be the wisdom tooth extraction site as it was inflamed and I had gingivitis there on the day of the filling - the dentist made no mention of this to me.>>

OF COURSE THE DENTIST SHOULD HAVE INFORMED YOU OF THESE FINDINGS ESPECIALLY SINCE HE FELT THEY WERE SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH TO NOTE IN YOUR CHART. ALSO AS A SIDE NOTE... DRILLING INTO A TOOTH CAUSES BACTERIA TO FLY ALL OVER THE PLACE SO IDEALLY THE WISDOM TOOTH SITE NEEDED TO BE CLOSED OVER BEFORE ANY DRILLING WAS DONE.

<<The junior dentist did say the filling is quite close to the pulp.>>

THIS COULD BE WHY YOU ARE EXPERIENCING THESE SYMPTOMS. THE PULP BECOMES INFLAMED FROM DRILLING AND WORKING ON THE TOOTH ESPECIALLY IF THE DECAY WAS NEAR THE PULP. IF THE PULP WAS NOT EXPOSED DURING THE DRILLING AND IF THE FILLING FITS WELL INTO YOUR BITE SO YOU ARE NOT HITTING THAT TOOTH ABNORMALLY HARD, THEN IT IS POSSIBLE FOR THE INFLAMED PULP TO CALM DOWN. BUT THIS COULD TAKE WEEKS.

<< A couple of days after the filling I started on Amoxicillin as I also developed tonsillitis, an after hours doctor then swapped me to penicillin VK.
This morning I went to my GP as I was in pain and dizzy and she says some of my pain is in my glands rather than my jaw and has now swapped me over to Clindamycin. She didn't seem to think there was an abscess but suggested I go back to the oral surgeon - which I can't get into until Friday.>>

IN CASE YOU ARE NOT AWARE... IT IS IMPORTANT TO SUPPLEMENT WITH A PROBIOTIC ANY TIME THAT YOU TAKE AN ANTIBIOTIC BECAUSE THE ANTIBIOTICS WILL DESTROY THE HEALTHY BACTERIA IN YOUR INTESTINES WHICH CAN MAKE YOU VERY ILL. PROBIOTICS ARE HEALTHY BACTERIAS THAT REPLACE THOSE DESTROYED BY THE MEDICATION. IT IS IDEAL TO A PROBIOTIC ONE HOUR PRIOR TO YOUR ANTIBIOTIC OR TWO HOURS AFTER AS THEY EACH CAN INTERFERE WITH THE ABSORPTION IF TAKEN TOO CLOSELY. IT IS ALSO IDEAL TO CONTINUE ON THE PROBIOTIC FOR SEVERAL WEEKS OR MORE AFTER THE LAST ANTIBIOTIC PILL IS TAKEN TO CONTINUE TO REPLENISH THE GOOD BACTERIA TO HELP KEEP YOU WELL. IF YOU ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH PROBIOTICS AND WANT INFORMATION ABOUT THEM, LET ME KNOW.

<<My face is only slightly swollen on that side but I've just woken up at 5 am because of the pain. Does anyone have clue about what may be going on? Nerve pain? Jaw infection? Is it the extraction site or the filled tooth? I do think a little bit of it is TMJ but there is something else going on too.>>

I THINK IT WOULD BE WISE TO CALL THE ORAL SURGEON AND EXPLAIN THE CHANGE AND SEVERITY OF YOUR SYMPTOMS TO GET IN TO SEE HIM SOONER.

<<Oh, and I must mention that one of the upper premolars on the same side was re - root canaled back in October and still had the temp filling when I got the wisdom tooth extracted. With the extraction, the root canaled tooth became the most painful tooth in my mouth so it has been left with the temp filling to settle - it seems to get referred pain from the other 2 teeth that are currently in pain. Otherwise my teeth are all good, other than minor fillings to date the only work I had had done was that 1 root canal.>>

THE ORAL SURGEON SHOULD ALSO TAKE AN XRAY OF THAT RECENTLY ROOT CANALED TOOTH TO EVALUATE IT. ROOT CANALED TEETH ARE NEVER MADE HEALTHY AGAIN BECAUSE THE HUNDREDS OF TINY CANALS THAT ARE NOT ACCESSIBLE REMAIN INFLAMED AND INFECTED. THE ROOT CANAL PROCEDURE IS DONE TO RETAIN A NON VITAL TOOTH, IT IS NOT DONE TO CURE AN INFECTION. SO IT IS VERY COMMON FOR ROOT CANALED TEETH TO BE PROBLEMATIC.

I hope this information has been helpful. Please check back with us with any more concerns or questions.

Bryanna

[Mytoothhurts2]

Thank you Bryanna, for your detailed answer. I ended up speaking to the Oral Surgeon yesterday and will now be seeing him tomorrow. He didn't know what was going on but said he will have a look and do a panoramic xray. He did say the tooth with the filling (2nd molar) may need to be either pulled or a root canal - if that is the case I will have it pulled. Even though I worry a little about eating without it, I don't think I would ever opt again for a root canal. I will mention the existing root canal to him as well as it is now giving me a lot of (referred?) pain.

Again, thank you for your response and I'll put in an update once I've seen the oral surgeon.

[Bryanna]

Mytoothhurts2,

An example of a typical referred pain would be if you were grinding your teeth and you developed pain in say your temples or behind your eyes, etc. The cause of the pain that you feel in that root canaled tooth is due to the bacterial inflammation and it is being exacerbated by the generalized inflammation in your lower jaw from whatever is going on with that molar and/or the extraction site.

A panoramic x-ray will show your upper and lower jaw, tmj, frontal sinus area, etc. Which is helpful. However, this type of x-ray does not give a close up of any particular area. So it may behoove you to also have the surgeon take one or two periapical x-rays of the extraction site and lower molar and then one more periapical of the upper root canaled tooth. Taking all of these xrays will be more conclusive. Sometimes the patient has to ask to have these done.... I know that seems silly but don't be shy or hesitant to request them.

Yes, please keep us updated.
Bryanna




QUOTE=Mytoothhurts2;1118056]Thank you Bryanna, for your detailed answer. I ended up speaking to the Oral Surgeon yesterday and will now be seeing him tomorrow. He didn't know what was going on but said he will have a look and do a panoramic xray. He did say the tooth with the filling (2nd molar) may need to be either pulled or a root canal - if that is the case I will have it pulled. Even though I worry a little about eating without it, I don't think I would ever opt again for a root canal. I will mention the existing root canal to him as well as it is now giving me a lot of (referred?) pain.

Again, thank you for your response and I'll put in an update once I've seen the oral surgeon.[/QUOTE]

[Mytoothhurts2]

Thanks again Bryanna - I so admire how you dedicate yourself to we who are confused and scared - I do hope that all you do comes back to you ten fold.

I saw the oral surgeon today -he doesn't think it's the filling but the actual wisdom tooth extraction site. It looks on the xray as though the bone isn't filling in and he says the extraction site is still a really deep hole. I think the filling maybe just upset the whole thing - maybe even drilling debris is in the hole? Anyway, I'm to go back on Friday and he said he would clean it out an do a curette on the bone. Regarding the pain in the root canal - he said that all the inflammation is just upsetting it - to be honest ALL of my teeth are now becoming really sensitive so I'm willing to let it go and see what happens once we fix the pain in the wisdom tooth region.

He said it wouldn't take long and he would give me a local anaesthetic. What I didn't think to ask is will there be a lot of bleeding? Will healing be the same as the first time the wisdom tooth came out? I so don't want to go through all of that again (of course I have no choice).

Also, I have been having an upset tummy with the Clindamycin (and I had penicillin before the Clindamycin) - it's not diarrhea yet just frequent bowel movements and the OS suggested I stop the Clindamycin before it progresses further. I assume that I'll be OK without antibiotics? and that the procedure will be enough to control the infection?

Again, thanks a million.

[Bryanna]

Hi Mytoothhurts2,

Thank you for the kind words... I'm glad I can be helpful to you

I am still skeptical about that new filling on the molar and think it and the root canaled tooth will need to be addressed at some point. As I mentioned before, root canaled teeth remain inflamed due to the bacteria still present inside the tooth irrelevant of there being symptoms or not. But I agree that the wisdom tooth site is the priority.

The surgical debridement of the wisdom tooth site is done to remove any residual ligament and granulation tissue which is connective tissue with little blood vessels that fills in the site during the initial healing phase. Since the blood clot was lost early on, the bone was unprotected and it just didn't heal properly. The idea is to remove all that and get a good healthy blood supply going so a new clot can form. Depending on the individual case, the post op discomfort of this debridement may be similar to that of the extraction. It is usually short in duration if the clot stays in place and the sight heals well.

Regarding the antibiotic..... usually the patient is on antibiotics for the debridement. However, it sounds like your intestinal health is becoming compromised from the antibiotics so before that becomes worse, he is suggesting that you stop those meds. I am going to assume that you do not supplement with probiotics? If not, then it is imperative that you start to do that now. Antibiotics can deplete the intestines of all of the healthy bacteria and when that happens you can end up with an intestinal infection. Even weeks after you stopped the antibiotic. The probiotics can help prevent or lesson the degree of that from occurring.

If you want information on probiotics, let me know.

Bryanna

Originally Posted by Mytoothhurts2

Thanks again Bryanna - I so admire how you dedicate yourself to we who are confused and scared - I do hope that all you do comes back to you ten fold.

I saw the oral surgeon today -he doesn't think it's the filling but the actual wisdom tooth extraction site. It looks on the xray as though the bone isn't filling in and he says the extraction site is still a really deep hole. I think the filling maybe just upset the whole thing - maybe even drilling debris is in the hole? Anyway, I'm to go back on Friday and he said he would clean it out an do a curette on the bone. Regarding the pain in the root canal - he said that all the inflammation is just upsetting it - to be honest ALL of my teeth are now becoming really sensitive so I'm willing to let it go and see what happens once we fix the pain in the wisdom tooth region.

He said it wouldn't take long and he would give me a local anaesthetic. What I didn't think to ask is will there be a lot of bleeding? Will healing be the same as the first time the wisdom tooth came out? I so don't want to go through all of that again (of course I have no choice).

Also, I have been having an upset tummy with the Clindamycin (and I had penicillin before the Clindamycin) - it's not diarrhea yet just frequent bowel movements and the OS suggested I stop the Clindamycin before it progresses further. I assume that I'll be OK without antibiotics? and that the procedure will be enough to control the infection?

Again, thanks a million.

[cherd72]

Mytoothhurts2.... I came on looking for info and noticed your post. I am dealing with the same kind of issue. Wondering if you figured out your issue? Please feel free to email me if you like. Im also looking for answers to this annoying issue. I've read all your posts and i know how frustrating this is..

Originally Posted by Mytoothhurts2

Hi, I'm new here and it's a bit of a long story but I am in a world of pain and hoping someone can help.

About 2 months ago, I had my lower left impacted wisdom tooth extracted. I lost the clot within the first couple of days but it wasn't a dry socket just healed a little slowly and I had some jaw soreness that seemed to improve over time. Christmas eve I had the tooth next to the wisdom tooth extraction site were the wisdom tooth had been impacting filled. I did ask the dentist if the extraction site looked healed enough to do the filling and he told me it " looked good " . The filling gave me nothing but trouble from the beginning - you could see just by looking at it the the dentist had built the tooth up to be a lot bigger than the original tooth - the filling was especially sensitive to hot and cold and biting down. When I called the dentist's office (my dentist was by now on holiday ) and they read his notes they told me it may be the wisdom tooth extraction site as it was inflamed and I had gingivitis there on the day of the filling - the dentist made no mention of this to me.

Anyway, I have been back to the dentist office twice where junior dentists have ground it down to what now feels normal but I still have pain in my jaw. The pain is now mainly spontaneous and not so much set off by temperature and not at all by pressure. The junior dentist did say the filling is quite close to the pulp. A couple of days after the filling I started on Amoxicillin as I also developed tonsillitis, an after hours doctor then swapped me to penicillin VK. This morning I went to my GP as I was in pain and dizzy and she says some of my pain is in my glands rather than my jaw and has now swapped me over to Clindamycin. She didn't seem to think there was an abscess but suggested I go back to the oral surgeon - which I can't get into until Friday.

My face is only slightly swollen on that side but I've just woken up at 5 am because of the pain. Does anyone have clue about what may be going on? Nerve pain? Jaw infection? Is it the extraction site or the filled tooth? I do think a little bit of it is TMJ but there is something else going on too.

Oh, and I must mention that one of the upper premolars on the same side was re - root canaled back in October and still had the temp filling when I got the wisdom tooth extracted. With the extraction, the root canaled tooth became the most painful tooth in my mouth so it has been left with the temp filling to settle - it seems to get referred pain from the other 2 teeth that are currently in pain. Otherwise my teeth are all good, other than minor fillings to date the only work I had had done was that 1 root canal. I am 50 years old.

Thanks for any assistance.

[Mytoothhurts2]

Hi, I haven't posted for a while dealing with ongoing pain and being bounced around from oral surgeon to dentist to endodontist. Anyway, turns out the issue is the 2nd molar next to where the wisdom tooth was extracted. It needs either a root canal or to be pulled (I'm not 100% convinced that the filling shouldn't be redone but no one will do it). As I'm still having problems with the one root canal I already have, I'm not really keen to have one done in the 2nd molar so I'm considering having it pulled. Do you think my chewing will be much affected without the 2nd & 3rd molars on my lower left side? I am really missing chewing on that side at the moment and don't want to have to always chew on the right side of my mouth (I have all my other teeth). The endodontist REALLY wants me to have a root canal and made me feel a bit stupid for saying I would think about it. Bryanna, I know you are not a fan of root canals - what would you advise? Thanks

[Bryanna]

Mytoothhurts2,

I'm sorry to hear that you are continuing to have dental problems. Which dentist has determined that the second molar needs a root canal or extraction? How and why was that "definitive" diagnosis made? Can you post the xray of it here? Before you do anything with that second molar, you need to have a definitive reason to take any drastic measure with that tooth.

I feel as though you have been tossed around a bit by these dentists. Do you get that same sense? Are they all affiliated within the same practice?

Removing the lower second molar will not cause permanent chewing difficulties. The thing to be most concerned about is how removing the lower molar will affect the upper molar that is above it in the upper arch. Teeth need other teeth to occlude with to prevent them from drifting out of place. If the upper molar is occluding with this second molar and the second molar is removed and not replaced, then the upper molar can drift down which can result in significant bone loss. I am not aware of what other teeth you are missing other than the wisdom tooth.

The other issue as you are finding out with that other root canaled tooth is that when you retain an unhealthy tooth, you are in fact retaining a chronic problem which can spread beyond the tooth.

It bothers me very much that any dentist would make the patient feel stupid for questioning the dental treatment. You have every right to be fully informed of what the procedure entails which includes the factual risks associated with retaining diseased teeth. The endodontist is in the root canal business and he earns his living at selling people root canal therapy. It is important that you put aside the fact that he is a dentist/doctor and not assume he has your best interest at heart. This does not mean he is a bad person. It just means that he cannot offer you anything other than what he does for a living. People come to him for one thing... a root canal.

I cannot advise you what to do as only you can decide that for yourself. I can encourage you to read what I post here about root canaled teeth and allow the information to empower you to speak more effectively with your dentists. You need to ask your dentist what all of your options are including replacement options for teeth that you are considering removing. Only you can decide what you feel is best for you.

I have no affiliation with either of these practitioners but I will once again post two sites that offer great explanation about root canaled teeth. If you truly want to be informed because you are concerned about the systemic risks of retaining unhealthy teeth, then please read through this information. Otherwise, the only thing you have to go on is what your dentists are selling you.

http://naturaldentistry.us/category/...l-controversy/

http://www.cdchealth.com/rootcanalsmaycauseillness.html

I know this situation is very difficult... I wish I could offer you more. But it is up to you to either become more informed or not.

Bryanna

Originally Posted by Mytoothhurts2

Hi, I haven't posted for a while dealing with ongoing pain and being bounced around from oral surgeon to dentist to endodontist. Anyway, turns out the issue is the 2nd molar next to where the wisdom tooth was extracted. It needs either a root canal or to be pulled (I'm not 100% convinced that the filling shouldn't be redone but no one will do it). As I'm still having problems with the one root canal I already have, I'm not really keen to have one done in the 2nd molar so I'm considering having it pulled. Do you think my chewing will be much affected without the 2nd & 3rd molars on my lower left side? I am really missing chewing on that side at the moment and don't want to have to always chew on the right side of my mouth (I have all my other teeth). The endodontist REALLY wants me to have a root canal and made me feel a bit stupid for saying I would think about it. Bryanna, I know you are not a fan of root canals - what would you advise? Thanks

[Mytoothhurts2]

Hi Bryanna

Thanks as always for your concern & help. The answers to your questions are:

The person who decided the tooth needs a root canal was the endodontist - he stands to make $2500 out of the deal (root canals in Australia are VERY expensive). He diagnosed it by putting a dam around the tooth and putting cold water on it - I just about jumped through the roof with the pain. The normal dentist had done cold tests on it but while I had a little lingering pain my reaction to the cold was not so dramatic - endodontist says because the tooth wasn't isolated. The root at the back of the tooth where the wisdom tooth was extracted has some exposed root but I assume the dam would have stopped the cold water from touching that?

I have been tossed around by these people - no they are not in the same practice but their practices are within a few km's of each other and they must refer to each other regularly. But I find this with all health professionals - they are happy to help when you have an easy problem but once it gets complicated they palm you off.

The only teeth I am currently missing are my wisdom teeth. Top ones were removed in my mid 30's as they had super erupted because the bottom ones were impacted. So this tooth I am considering pulling will really be my only missing tooth (other than wisdoms). I'm not sure I understand how the tooth above it drifting down can cause bone loss?

I really don't want a root canal but I don't want an implant either - one thing I was aware of and this experience has confirmed is that I don't heal well. I'm always the one who has a rare complication, keloid scarring and adhesions with other surgeries so I don't really trust that my bone would accept a metal implant and I REALLY don't want to go through more suffering.

I've noticed though that I do chew a lot on my second molar. I'd love to hear from other people on this site who have had that tooth removed and how do they get on with chewing? Do they enjoy their food less? Do they tend to favor the other side of their mouth (which I currently do but I have a huge filling which I have had for 35 years on that second molar which I am careful not to break)?

Thanks Bryanna and anyone else who wants to chime in.