[Meera Dasi]

Hello there Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend.
After a long period of dental problems and pain due to two infected root canals, followed by both of them being extracted, loooong recovery process and getting used to a new Carlson bridge, I am back with another question- I am due to see my dentist end of this coming week, but want to get this question out before than, because it is an issue I have dealt with since a long time (approx. two or three years), and so far, my wonderful dentist was not able to determine any cause for my issue other than an obvious TMJ issue.

So, here it goes: Since I started flossing at least once a day about 7 or 8 months ago, I noticed that whenever I floss between two of my molars (upper left jaw), there will be a twinging pain when I pull the floss out and upwards. Now, I have not experienced any pain when brushing (except occasional tooth sensitivity, where a few of my molars will be super sensitive- has become better with dicthing commercial tooth pastes and changes in my diet)- also, no pain when chewing or drinking hot/ cold. Only when I pull up the floss after cleaning the space between, it hurts. Not the gum, but the tooth twinges. My dentist could not find anything so far, no cavity (and he has a machine that he holds close to the teeth and it will detect even smallest cavities), no infammation, no sensitivity to tapping or pressure (again, it does not feel like an abscessed tooth at all, just twinges when I floss), also, he did a bite test on all my molars on that side where he put a toothbrush-like plastic (without the bristles) on each cusp and had me bite down to see if there were any cracks. Nothing.
I am at a loss as to what this could be... it is not a major pain, but even a slight twinge, one would like to know what is going on, right?
Maybe our wonderful Bryanna has any ideas and input? Or maybe someone else has dealt with a similar problem before?
Thanks, everyone
Meera

[Bryanna]

Hi Meera Dasi,

Hope your previous dental problems have resolved and the carlson bridge has become comfortable for you.

The twinges that you feel in between the two upper molars can be due to some interproximial (in between the teeth) gum recession exposing a little bit of root surface which could be really minor and not easily detected clinically.... could be a hairline crack in one of the teeth which would give you more symptoms if it were deep .... could be an inflamed gum tissue underneath the gum due to a piece of hard calculus or a piece of fibrous tissue that gets irritated when flossed..... could be an ill fitting restoration that needs to be replaced. Do you find that food gets stuck in that area? If so then the dentist may be able to re-contour the shape of that interproximal area so food does not get stuck. Is that area difficult for you to reach and are you forcing the floss in there?

If all tests come up negative.... try using a different type of floss. Use a "tape" rather than a string. See if that helps.

[Meera Dasi]

Hi Bryanna, thanks for the reply!
My Carlson bridge took me over two months to get used to, and a lot of adjusting from my dentist, he also made the connection between the fake tooth and the adjustment tooth less "tight", so now I feel a hundred times better with it. It still feels a bit "strange" from time to time, just not like a real tooth, but after all, it IS not a real tooth ;-).

Concerning the flossing problem- the two teeth in that area are pretty tightly spaced (it is two molars), and getting the floss to go in is fine but when I want to pull it upwars, and back out, it gives me "nervy" twinges for a few seconds. I am using very thin floss now which works better. It almost feels as if there is a "bump" or protruding tiny edge towards the cusp of the tooth, but I am not sure if I have a composite filling there- I will post my last panoramic X-rays, maybe you can even see first glance whether there is a filling or not? Sorry I had to post so many x-rays, but my untrained eye cannot make out which is the right one :-(. The twinges occur between 12 and 13. Last time, my dentist checked for crakcs using a plastic, bristle less toothbrush and checked all cusps in that region individually, he also shone a certain light there, could not see anything. I am scared of cracks, and am wondering what other symptoms would go along with that? I have no sensitivity when biting or drinking hot and cold. I am wondering, maybe it would even help if he just made the space between those teeth a tad bigger so it is easier for me to floss there.
Also, pay no attention to the root canals on the X-rays, they are gone, those are the ones that I got removed a few months ago :-).

Thank you!
Meera

Originally Posted by Bryanna

Hi Meera Dasi,

Hope your previous dental problems have resolved and the carlson bridge has become comfortable for you.

The twinges that you feel in between the two upper molars can be due to some interproximial (in between the teeth) gum recession exposing a little bit of root surface which could be really minor and not easily detected clinically.... could be a hairline crack in one of the teeth which would give you more symptoms if it were deep .... could be an inflamed gum tissue underneath the gum due to a piece of hard calculus or a piece of fibrous tissue that gets irritated when flossed..... could be an ill fitting restoration that needs to be replaced. Do you find that food gets stuck in that area? If so then the dentist may be able to re-contour the shape of that interproximal area so food does not get stuck. Is that area difficult for you to reach and are you forcing the floss in there?

If all tests come up negative.... try using a different type of floss. Use a "tape" rather than a string. See if that helps.

[Meera Dasi]

Actually, I just flossed and there is a twinge between 12 and 13 and 13 and 14. I used very thin floss this time, and it is only a tiny twinge now. This is a new floss that I just opened and it is super thin, thinner than the one I used until now. Even with that one though, its kinda hard to get it up and out, it kind of gets stuck before I manage to pull it all the way up, and that causes the pain.

Originally Posted by Meera Dasi

Hi Bryanna, thanks for the reply!
My Carlson bridge took me over two months to get used to, and a lot of adjusting from my dentist, he also made the connection between the fake tooth and the adjustment tooth less "tight", so now I feel a hundred times better with it. It still feels a bit "strange" from time to time, just not like a real tooth, but after all, it IS not a real tooth ;-).

Concerning the flossing problem- the two teeth in that area are pretty tightly spaced (it is two molars), and getting the floss to go in is fine but when I want to pull it upwars, and back out, it gives me "nervy" twinges for a few seconds. I am using very thin floss now which works better. It almost feels as if there is a "bump" or protruding tiny edge towards the cusp of the tooth, but I am not sure if I have a composite filling there- I will post my last panoramic X-rays, maybe you can even see first glance whether there is a filling or not? Sorry I had to post so many x-rays, but my untrained eye cannot make out which is the right one :-(. The twinges occur between 12 and 13. Last time, my dentist checked for crakcs using a plastic, bristle less toothbrush and checked all cusps in that region individually, he also shone a certain light there, could not see anything. I am scared of cracks, and am wondering what other symptoms would go along with that? I have no sensitivity when biting or drinking hot and cold. I am wondering, maybe it would even help if he just made the space between those teeth a tad bigger so it is easier for me to floss there.
Also, pay no attention to the root canals on the X-rays, they are gone, those are the ones that I got removed a few months ago :-).

Thank you!
Meera

[Bryanna]

Hi Meera,

Thanks for posting the xrays! Okay just so you know, you posted 4 bite wings and one periapical xray, no panoramic xray.

I do not know which is your left or right side as it depends on how you copied them... face down, face up.

So the 5th xray that you posted... 1,2,3,4,(5)... shows a large cavity on the distal portion of the 1st pre molar tooth. This is an interproximal area between the 1st and second pre molars. If you look at that xray at the 1st tooth on all the way to the right you will see a large dark (black) area on the tooth above a bright white area (filling) and next to a dark line (nerve) down the center of the tooth. This is deep decay and may actually be in communication with the nerve. There may be some pathology going on at the root of this 1st premolar which would mean that the cavity has reached the nerve. So I don't know if this is tooth #13 or #5 as the xrays do not indicate left or right. The adjacent tooth, the second premolar #14 or #4 may also have decay on the mesial side (interproximal area towards the 1st pre molar) above the white filling and also above that on the root surface. You also have some interproximal bone loss on both of these teeth which means that you are flossing a bare root surface which could be sensitive. These areas of concern are also on the (3rd) and (4th) xrays that you posted. So which ever side of the mouth that xray is of, those areas need to be evaluated.

The 1st and 2nd xrays, (1), (2), 3,4,5, show that you have interproximal restorations on both premolars and the first molar. You also have a piece of calculus on the mesial near the gum line on the first molar. So if these 2 xrays are of your left side, then you could be getting hung up on that piece of calculus with the floss.

I'm sorry if you were not aware of the cavities :/ Or perhaps they have been restored since these xrays were taken? Which side of your mouth is the last xray (#5) that you posted?

[Meera Dasi]

Hi Bryanna, and thank you!
Sorry I should have clarified that the big decaying area is tooth Nr 5, so on my right side, and this is where I had gotten my second root canal due to the tooth not calming down after two attempts to fill it. Then, I had this tooth extracted and now it is replaced by a Carlson bridge. This means, what you said about restorations between teeth and a piece of calculus, that would be my left side, the side where I get the pains. Does that make sense? One thing is, the restorations should not be leaking or anything, since he tested them about 6 months ago with some kind of machine or sensor that can pick up even the beginning stages of decay or bacteria... so I wonder, what else could be wrong then? And, what does it mean to have a piece of Calculus?
Thank you for all your help :-)
Meera

Originally Posted by Bryanna

Hi Meera,

Thanks for posting the xrays! Okay just so you know, you posted 4 bite wings and one periapical xray, no panoramic xray.

I do not know which is your left or right side as it depends on how you copied them... face down, face up.

So the 5th xray that you posted... 1,2,3,4,(5)... shows a large cavity on the distal portion of the 1st pre molar tooth. This is an interproximal area between the 1st and second pre molars. If you look at that xray at the 1st tooth on all the way to the right you will see a large dark (black) area on the tooth above a bright white area (filling) and next to a dark line (nerve) down the center of the tooth. This is deep decay and may actually be in communication with the nerve. There may be some pathology going on at the root of this 1st premolar which would mean that the cavity has reached the nerve. So I don't know if this is tooth #13 or #5 as the xrays do not indicate left or right. The adjacent tooth, the second premolar #14 or #4 may also have decay on the mesial side (interproximal area towards the 1st pre molar) above the white filling and also above that on the root surface. You also have some interproximal bone loss on both of these teeth which means that you are flossing a bare root surface which could be sensitive. These areas of concern are also on the (3rd) and (4th) xrays that you posted. So which ever side of the mouth that xray is of, those areas need to be evaluated.

The 1st and 2nd xrays, (1), (2), 3,4,5, show that you have interproximal restorations on both premolars and the first molar. You also have a piece of calculus on the mesial near the gum line on the first molar. So if these 2 xrays are of your left side, then you could be getting hung up on that piece of calculus with the floss.

I'm sorry if you were not aware of the cavities :/ Or perhaps they have been restored since these xrays were taken? Which side of your mouth is the last xray (#5) that you posted?

[Bryanna]

Hi Meera,

Okay, good to know. It is hard for me to remember everyone's case here unless I refer back to the original posts. So yes, In now recall tooth #5 was decayed, infected and root canaled... then extracted. Tooth #4 on the mesial (interproximal) side, did your dentist do any fillings on that area since that xray was taken? If not then you may have 2 areas of decay or it could be what is called burnout. But I think it would be wise for your dentist to recheck that tooth for decay.

Regarding the left side, tooth #14 the first upper molar appears to have a piece of calculus or tartar on the mesial up near the crest of the bone. It is hard to confirm that on this xray as it could also be a shadow or reflection off of the root. Teeth #12 and 13 both have restorations but the margins look good on this xray. There is some bone loss (not a lot) and some root exposure underneath the gum. So the initial contact between the fillings when you bring the floss up in between the teeth could be tight and then when you bring the floss up further you are rubbing against the exposed root surface. Also, that area where you feel the floss is getting stuck or hung up could be a slight overhang on the filling, although it is not evident on this xray. Ask your dentist to floss in there and let him see what you are talking about.

In the meantime, try the tape floss. String floss can be a bit harsh on the gum tissue in areas that are tight. The tape slides easier and is not as abrasive on the root surface as the string.

[Meera Dasi]

Hi Bryanna,
Thank you so much and sorry for not being more clear, I can imagine it is not really possible to keep up with every person's history and cases here! But you do such a good job at helping us, honestly, I am so glad to have found a place where I can discuss issues and feel I am actually receiving very valuable input and knowledgable answers/suggestions.

In regards to decay on tooth Nr 4, yes, as far as I can remember, my dentist did a filling there too.

What you mentioned about the calculus on 14, it might well be that that has been removed, since I had two professional cleanings (of course, fluoride and chemical free!) done since those were taken. I also know that I have more up-to-date X-rays, but I will need to request my dentist to email me those. The X-rays I posted where just the only once I had/ have access to atm.

You know, what you say about exposed tooth root/neck, makes me wonder, as I definitely see that the gum by my molars and pre-molar do not come down as much to form that "triangle" that I have between my front teeth. Maybe that plays into it? Is there any natural remedies/ steps I can take now to help grow healthy gum in these areas? Also, every few months I get sensitivity to brushing there, which will usually subside after a few days. That might also be caused by exposed necks or roots, am I right? I read tea tree or wintergreen essential oils might help... my dentist checked this area already two times, and never saw anything wrong... I wonder if he saw that I had exposed tooth necks? I know I had some when I was a teenager, and my dentist at that time in Germany, just put some kind of protective lack on it, and it did not bother me after that. My holistic dentist now never said anything about a lack, maybe because it is not the best for one's health- what is your take on this?

One thing I can celebrate today is, that I was able to see a very knowledgable and kind chiropractitioner and nutritional specialist yesterday, who found out through muscle testing the root cause for my Hashimoto's, and also, what nutrition to take to heal my body. I am very happy about that, as for sure, this will also be very beneficial for my oral health! She also used a technique to help with my TMJ, and so far, so good :-).

Originally Posted by Bryanna

Hi Meera,

Okay, good to know. It is hard for me to remember everyone's case here unless I refer back to the original posts. So yes, In now recall tooth #5 was decayed, infected and root canaled... then extracted. Tooth #4 on the mesial (interproximal) side, did your dentist do any fillings on that area since that xray was taken? If not then you may have 2 areas of decay or it could be what is called burnout. But I think it would be wise for your dentist to recheck that tooth for decay.

Regarding the left side, tooth #14 the first upper molar appears to have a piece of calculus or tartar on the mesial up near the crest of the bone. It is hard to confirm that on this xray as it could also be a shadow or reflection off of the root. Teeth #12 and 13 both have restorations but the margins look good on this xray. There is some bone loss (not a lot) and some root exposure underneath the gum. So the initial contact between the fillings when you bring the floss up in between the teeth could be tight and then when you bring the floss up further you are rubbing against the exposed root surface. Also, that area where you feel the floss is getting stuck or hung up could be a slight overhang on the filling, although it is not evident on this xray. Ask your dentist to floss in there and let him see what you are talking about.

In the meantime, try the tape floss. String floss can be a bit harsh on the gum tissue in areas that are tight. The tape slides easier and is not as abrasive on the root surface as the string.

[Bryanna]

Hi Meera,

Yes, your gums are blunted rather than pointed in between your posterior teeth. This is typical of an adult and in someone who has some gum recession and some bone loss. You cannot grow gum tissue. Once it has receded it is gone unless you have a gingival tissue graft done. But you are not a candidate for that as your problem is not that severe. Also the dentist can put some desensitizing lacquer on those areas that are sensitive, but it wears off pretty quickly from brushing your teeth.

What you can do as preventive measures to reduce the progression of the gum recession is to brush and floss thoroughly every day, use a tongue scraper to remove debris from your tongue, and avoid using chemical mouthwashes as they just try out the tissue making the problems worse.

Therapeutically, you can apply a tiny bit of baking soda to your toothbrush once a day and brush with that instead of toothpaste and use a teaspoon or more of coconut oil to do what is called oil pulling which is using the oil as a rinse but purposely moving it around your teeth and gums so as to pull it into the tissue. Do that for about one minute and then rinse out with warm water.

In a small bowl, I make a small amount of paste using a smidgeon of baking soda or Himalayan salt, tablespoon of coconut oil and a drop of peppermint oil. I dip my electric toothbrush in to this paste and use that to clean my teeth. Sometimes I make a batch of it and store it in a small glass jar or just make it as I use it. I would avoid tea tree oil on the gums as it is too astringent and irritating to gum tissue. Winter green oils can be harsh also. The idea is to not use anything harsh or anything that will disrupt the healthy bacteria in the mouth.

I am glad to hear that you are under the care of a chiropractor who is knowledgeable about nutrition. What were the results of the kinesiology regarding the hashimotos? Was it toxicity? What is doing for the TMJ?

[Meera Dasi]

Hi Bryanna,
The practitioner found out that the root cause for my Hashimoto's was a virus- not sure exactly, which one, but she also tested me for the nutrition my body needs to rid itself of it and begin healing. The method and nutrition she uses is called Quantum Nutrition Labs by Dr Bob Marshall, and I have already taken some of their supplements and am amazed at the purity and effectiveness of them- they only use organic, fair-trade and purest plants/etc. and I already feel so much better since starting the nutrition 3 days ago.

Regarding my teeth, I only use toothpowder (homemade with baking soda, salt, tumeric and clay) or sometimes I even brush with coconut oil. I also started swishing with green-black walnut hull tincture, which is supposed to help with strengthening teeth and gums and tooth enamel. Maybe this will help as well. I should def start oil pulling again, too.
Have you ever used Xylitol? I keep hearing about it's benefits for oral health...

Since I started using an ultra thin floss, flossing is much more easy. Tomorrow I see my dentist and will have him check if anything else is going on.

Regrding exposed tooth necks, I know some people swear by dabbing some desensythising toothpaste on it, but obviously I would rather not use commercial products. I wonder if there is any natural toothpaste that is desensitizing?

Thanks again, and if you are interested in the nutrition I mentioned, check them out online under "Qunatum Nutrition Labs", they also have really interesting free radio shows with topics like "optimal oral health", "Liver Health" etc. Good stuff!

Originally Posted by Bryanna

Hi Meera,

Yes, your gums are blunted rather than pointed in between your posterior teeth. This is typical of an adult and in someone who has some gum recession and some bone loss. You cannot grow gum tissue. Once it has receded it is gone unless you have a gingival tissue graft done. But you are not a candidate for that as your problem is not that severe. Also the dentist can put some desensitizing lacquer on those areas that are sensitive, but it wears off pretty quickly from brushing your teeth.

What you can do as preventive measures to reduce the progression of the gum recession is to brush and floss thoroughly every day, use a tongue scraper to remove debris from your tongue, and avoid using chemical mouthwashes as they just try out the tissue making the problems worse.

Therapeutically, you can apply a tiny bit of baking soda to your toothbrush once a day and brush with that instead of toothpaste and use a teaspoon or more of coconut oil to do what is called oil pulling which is using the oil as a rinse but purposely moving it around your teeth and gums so as to pull it into the tissue. Do that for about one minute and then rinse out with warm water.

In a small bowl, I make a small amount of paste using a smidgeon of baking soda or Himalayan salt, tablespoon of coconut oil and a drop of peppermint oil. I dip my electric toothbrush in to this paste and use that to clean my teeth. Sometimes I make a batch of it and store it in a small glass jar or just make it as I use it. I would avoid tea tree oil on the gums as it is too astringent and irritating to gum tissue. Winter green oils can be harsh also. The idea is to not use anything harsh or anything that will disrupt the healthy bacteria in the mouth.

I am glad to hear that you are under the care of a chiropractor who is knowledgeable about nutrition. What were the results of the kinesiology regarding the hashimotos? Was it toxicity? What is doing for the TMJ?