Hi Cheryl,

My experience has been that I can't feel my feet because of PN. Once I got a stick stuck into my ankle and I didn't feel how it was getting infected until I could barely walk, and then even worse, I had a broken needle in my toe that I didn't feel.

I now know, for sure, that more B12 decreases PN and increases feeling and balance. I was having a lot of trouble with balance, too, but that's getting to be less a problem.

I'm curious, do you have ridges on your fingernails? and do you notice that your moons are beginning to disappear on some fingers? That can be a sign of B12 deficiency in terms of internal tissues.

[QUOTE=Cheryl;151310][COLOR="Blue"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Hello - I have been reading various posts on Methyl B-12. I do not have a deficiency. I do have severe DPN. Is this something that could be useful regardless of whether there is a deficiency? 1000 mcg or 5000 mcg daily?
Is it safe to take with prescription meds?

Cheryl I am also trying to learn as much as possible about B12 which I discovered is ESSENTIAL....... it is my new learning that as B12 is a water soluabble vitamin, it should NOT build up to toxic levels under normal conditions within the human body. Perhaps one of the more knowledgable members would care to agree/disagree .... substantiate this comment?

Cheer's from Clare in Tassie

Yes, B12 doesn't build up in our systems. What our bodies don't use, they excrete.

It's important to remember that we need B12 in all of our tissue, and just as it takes a long time for it to be depleted, it also takes a long time to replenish it.

Just because we have a lot of B12 in our blood doesn't mean it is going in the same big numbers into our tissue where it is needed.

I think that's why I've been having replacement therapy for nearly ten years, and my fingernails are now much smoother, but not smooth.

Hello everyone I have just returned from the booked visit with my GP regarding blood tests taken and ordered one week ago.

Sadly ONLY ONE of the ordered test results was back - serum B12
I was told, after the receptionist checked with the laboratory, that the Hyc and MMA can take up to 2 weeks for the results to become available.

Doc /GP was in a good mood and was open to discussing the possibility of me having subnormal B12 for my bodies requirements - subject to the results of the other tests backing this theory up.

Results of S. Vitamin B12 September 18, 2007 362
Results of S. Vitamin B12 April 23, 2007 548

Ain't difficult to see a marked DECLINE in those two numbers
(please note they are sill within the 'good level' guidelines issued for Australia)


My Red cell Folate from April was 1376
HCT Measured May 2007 is 0.38
again within 'normal' standard range for Labs in Australia


When discussing possible problems with him, Doc said 'DEFINITELY NOT pernicious anemia'.

He is willing once he sees the other lab results, and if MMA shows any indications etc.... to get my IF (intrinsic factor) tested.

In the interim I can have (generous of him) 1 x IM B12
Take a B multi vitamin
Drink 1 glass per day of Red Wine

Will write more shortly
Cheer's from Clare in Tassie

It is rather difficult obtaining sub-lingual methyl-cobalamin in Australia. Luckilly we are members of Life Extension Foundation so can purchase what we need on line and have it sent to us here.

I now have the 5mg sublinguals, but will wait to begin taking them I think untill after I see the GP in a further 2 weeks.

I have injected IM B12 and each time I seem to have had a reaction to it. I injected every second day (that is 3 times in one week on alternative days) and each time I felt markedly worse after each shot. Freezing cold shivers, more aches and pains, sore tongue, bowel problems etc.......

Maybe this is a case of you got to get worse before you get better? I wonder! I will give myself another shot tonight.... and try and be a patient patient! hahahah I want to use up the small store of injections I have in my refrigerator before commencing the daily sublinguals.

Q.
Instructions on the bottle of sunlinguals say to take 1 - 8 per day!!!!
then tell you
DO NOT EXCEED RECOMMENDED DOSE!



Ok these are 5 mg....... how much of this sublingual actually becomes available to my body and how much will be excreted? any suggestions?

Thanks again..........

Clare in Tassie

while doing my online reading and research today I came across an article on the MERCOLA site which maybe of benefit to people looking for understanding of the process involved with testing for B12 deficiency.............

I have NO commercial interest in this site

http://www.mercola.com/2003/may/28/vitamin_b-12.htm

Just thought to pass this along for your information

See Ya later, Cheer's from Clare in Tassie

Hi Clare,
Nice to hear from you.

The marked decline is indeed marked. Did you have a lot of stress to deal with? I think it's useful to get an idea of what might cause something like that.

Pernicious anemia is a condition where your body no longer makes or has intrinsic factor which is needed to use B12. It's pretty rare these days. Some B12 researchers theorize that lack of intrinsic factor is a condition that develops after a significant periood of low B12.

It is very common however to have other problems which lead to low B12 and those problems are commonly called B12 malabsorption illness.

Are you taking a multi with the other B vitamins? or a mega B to supply them?

The B vitamins really are a "complex" and need to be taken together. If not, then too much of one can cause a reaction in one of the others because it is low low in relation to the others... I realize that your overall B12 is low, but if your B12 test is in the 300s after all the injections... or did you only begin injecting after your blood was drawn for the test? it would appear to have been even very low at one point.

I have on my site an excellent article about how the low in Japan and some other countries is 550. So on that scale your B12 results would not have been normal in either month.

B12 must build up and be stored in quantities necessary for years of use. If not, the patient will decline terribly, either very slowly or rapidly.

It is not toxic, so there is no need to worry about it becoming a problem. What the body doesn't want to store or use it flushes out in the urine. B12 is used very slowly, but it can be built up pretty quickly.

Some other water soluable vitamins can build up. B6 for instance.

The doc almost surely is confusing megaloblastic anemia with "pernicious anemia." Megaloblastic anemia may not be present when one has "pernicious anemia," even in some cases in which the patient is being severely damaged by B12 deficiency. Until the intrinsic factor test, the doc hasn't begun to rule out pernicious anemia.

Pernicious anemia is not an anemia, and it is not an inability to use B12, it is an inability to absorb it normally.

When IF is not present (pernicious anemia), the patient must either have shots, take very large doses orally--1000 - 2000 mcg is the standard dose, or use some other method such as nasal (more difficult and expensive than oral).

Once the B12 is absorbed, it can be used just fine unless some other condition exists (that would be rare).

Pernicious is not rare. Malabsorption due to lack of sufficient stomach acid is far more common, and that sometimes progresses to the lack also of IF.

There is no worry about imbalance with B12 in relation to the other B vitamins. But, if you do not have one or more of the others in sufficient quantities, that can be a problem. And generally there should be a balance of the others, so a B complex is a good idea, in addition to the extra B12 at a different time of day.

Mercola has a lot of fabulous information, but he's not too hot on the B12. In fact, it looks like he didn't catch the fact that high MMA indicates either B12 deficiency or kidney problem, not low MMA as is suggested by the article.

Please remember that MMA does not increase in all cases of B12 deficiency, and when one takes B12 the MMA that is high can come down quickly so if it is tested after B12 has been taken it can be misleading.

They don't want to be responsible for you being on the cutting edge. The fact that they say eight a day shows that they are out front of most.

rose

Pernicious anemia is not the same as B12 malabsorption illness.

Pernicious anemia is a lack of intrinsic factor in the gastrointestinal system and that means that if a person with pernicious anemia eats the same foods containing B12 as a person who does not have pernicous anemia, the person with pernicious anemia will not get the benefit of the B12.

Our bodies need intrinsic factor in order to get benefit from the B12 we ingest. We can eat eggs and not use the B12 in them without intrinsic factor.

Hence the brilliance of sublinguals which bypass the gastrointestinal system.

Anemia is a medical word indicating a change in the blood,
The fact is that not everyone with low B12 has anemia, but many do.

So it is as harmful to people to say anemia must be a feature of a B12 deficiency, as it is to say that it is not a feature of B12 deficiency.

If someone has enlarged blood cells, and those cells are not carrying enough oxygen, and the person is feeling abnormally tired, then the person deserves to have their blood looked at both for signs of anemia and low B12.

Pernicious anemia is not the same as "B12 malabsorption illess." As I explained above, pernicious anemia is lack of intrinsic factor.

Many more people have intrinsic factor but have lost the ability to produce sufficient stomach acid----thus a condition some call B12 malabsorption illness.

Both people will not benefit from foods containing B12, unless they eat huge quantities of liver daily or food fortified with B12 supplement. The person who lacks intrinsic factor won't even get any B12 from the fortified food.

We need sufficient stomach acid to break the B12 out of the eggs. Then we need intrinsic factor to accompany the B12 from stomach to ileum. Neither of these people will get any B12 out of the eggs.

It was learned about 40 years ago that people who lack intrinsic factor can absorb enough B12 by default for treatment, if their oral doses are over 1000 mcg per day. This was swallowed B12. The dose is the important thing.

Of course anemia is a condition of the blood. It is important that more doctors become aware that many people being damaged by B12 deficiency will not show any sign of anemia.

Of course it is harmful to say that anemia must be present when a person is deficient in B12. That is why I have been pounding away at this myth for years. People need to know, because most of their doctors don't.

rose