That's what I said, isn't it? In pernicious anemia people have no control, there's no intrinsic factor. I don't see where you got the word, "handling" -- Are you sure you understood what I wrote?

I wake up to you lot every morning.... see what happens when you live Down Under!

Australia has a few nasty spiders BUT not as many as the Continental USA.... the one they suppose bit me is called a WHITE TAIL.... tiny little thing.... left a big hole tho in my upper thigh!

Rose, Karen: you two seem to have the most 'advanced' information, for which I myself am truly grateful. One Q tho? actually more of an observation: are you two in competition? or angry with each other, or just used to clarifying each other's comments?

Whatever!!!! I am grateful for your wealth of knowledge.

I enjoy research myself... so when I find anything I think maybe of benefit I will post it? HERE????? is that the correct place for the B12 stuff.....

Breakfast time....... ttyl

Clare in Tassie

Hi Clare,
* administrative edit in accordance with NT guidelines*

I was bedbound from tetanus at the time and had no family or friends in physical life. Now sometimes I just am not up for it anymore. I'm under a lot of stress with some costly legal things. My purpose is to help people understand B12 better, and why it's so difficult for many people to get enough. (Which is also the case for magnesium since it too requires stomach acid). I used to be able to help people when I worked, but I can't work any more. So my web site makes me feel useful. To me, there are many different ways of explaining vitamin B12 and there's room for everyone who wants to explain it because there are so many people who need the information.

Yes, this is a good place to post vitamin B12 information.

Because depression can be a symptom of low B12 I sometimes post in depression forums. And I've posted in memory related forums because of the involvement of B12 in good memory. But Alzheimer's forums are a little sad because mostly everyone feels hopeless, which I think results from feeling they have to accept that there's no hope. There are a lot of people who need the information. So, post away! (and I don't mean go away)

It would be appreciated if this discussion could remain on topic and not become personal toward other members.

thank you

Cheri

Yes. Certain things hurt. (I mean nothing to do with Claire)

Ladies please: It was an observation I made with a smile on my face:
I am new here
Seems I pressed the wrong button and I APPOLOGISE SINCERELY
Can we drop the subject or erase the message?

The two 'senior' members seem to have BOTH OF THEM good answers and knowledge, yet from time to time I noticed one or the other questioning previous comments....... made by the other.....

It is a learning curve here I believe........ I did not mean to invoke a quarell (?sp)

The more I read the more I get (dare I say) 'angry' that my doc's over the years have never mentioned any of this 'stuff' to me...........

Like for instance these facts which I have found on the internet about the drug I have been prescribed, and been taking for my reflux problems:

(where possible I include the www address so anyone else interested can go look for more information)

SOMAC Pantoprazole
Generally, daily treatment with any acid-blocking medicines over a long time (e.g. longer than 3 years) may lead to malabsorption of cyanocobalamin caused by hypo- or achlorhydria. Rare cases of cyanocobalamin deficiency under acid-blocking therapy have been reported in the literature. This should be considered if respective clinical symptoms are observed.
To date there has been no experience with treatment in children.
In long-term treatment, especially when exceeding a treatment period of 1 year, patients should be kept under regular surveillance.
Patients being treated for mild reflux disease and associated symptoms with SOMAC 20 mg, who do not respond after 4 weeks, should be investigated.
http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/Profs/dat...s/somactab.htm

(I have been on this particular brand for 7 years)

So what I am reading here (in my own language) is that

(a) I should be closely monitored becuase the problem did not rectify itself.......

(b) they do know of 'rare cases' of cyanocobalamin deficiency under acid-blocking therapy . They state it should be considered if ? clinical symptoms (? of B12 deficiency) are observed!

TO DATE my doc's have not questioned why I need to remain on this medication..... nor have they even thought of the possibility that this drug could be the cause ..... IF IT IS .... of my problems.

I know I know...... they are too busy to read the stuff on web sites, they rely on what the drug rep's tell them......... arghhhhhhhh this is another major problem... but a different issue to the one we are discussing here.


Anyway I kept on reading and found another good lot of information here:
http://www.socalrejuvenation.com/fatigue.html

Vitamin B12 (cobalamin) plays an important role in DNA synthesis and neurologic function. Deficiency can lead to a wide spectrum of hematologic and neuropsychiatric disorders that can often be reversed by early diagnosis and prompt treatment.

Excuse me...... did I just read 'early detection'.... and possible reversal...... I have been trying to get a proper diagnosis now for seven years....... so much for EARLY DETECTION being able to reverse neuro symptoms...... arghhhhh

TABLE 1
Clinical Manifestations of Vitamin B12 Deficiency


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hematologic
Megaloblastic anemia
Pancytopenia (leukopenia, thrombocytopenia)
Neurologic
Paresthesias
Peripheral neuropathy
Combined systems disease (demyelination of dorsal columns and corticospinal tract)
Psychiatric
Irritability, personality change
Mild memory impairment, dementia
Depression
Psychosis
Cardiovascular
Possible increased risk of myocardial infarction and stroke

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have also read several times that neurological symptoms can quite often be present without the 'usual blood probelms' associated with B12 deficiency.

Gee I wish Doc's had time to read all of this..... would help make doctor's office visits far more productive.

I shall cease and desist for now....... thanks for listening again

All of the things you wrote about your docs are similar to the things which made me start my web site. I could not even get my doctor to hand out the information about the study showing a 550 B12 level was used in Japan because that was the level at which cognitive changes for the worse could be detected.

It made me so upset that there was all this research about B12, like the need for early diagnosis and treatment to avoid nerve damage, and my doctors were just not informed or interested.

One actually told me I could NOT be B12 deficient because I was not a vegetarian.

It boggles the mind.

So, it's great that you're getting the information and getting it out there, too.

I'm sorry I got so upset before. I feel as if I'm goaded. For sure, I am not going to follow you around and comment on everything you say differently than me.

I have to go back to finishing revisions of my appeal. (Sometimes you sound a lot like a lawyer, by the way. I came back when I realized that I'd better say that I mean that in a good way.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConsiderThis (Sometimes you sound a lot like a lawyer, by the way. I came back when I realized that I'd better say that I mean that in a good way.)

You brought a smile to my dial....... when I was a youngster, many eon's ago my Dear Mother, when exasperated by my argumentative self used to call me a Philadelphia Lawyer.......

I just went online to get a proper meaning for the phrase.......
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1500032

"Philadelphia lawyer" means a lawyer (or sometimes someone in a different field) who is shrewd, a good arguer, and good at exploiting technicalities. The phrase can be either a compliment or an insult; it basically depends whether to person so called is on the same side as the speaker.


Yes I know you did not try to insult me

Thanks for brightening my day.........

Oh, how funny, I don't know if you ever watch Big Brother. Apparently there's an Australian version. Anyway, in the last one here, they had "America's player" who was there to argue for whatever the majority of Americans voted. And in the house, (they knew nothing of the America's player angle) they got to calling him a Philadelphia lawyer. And, he always won them over. The people who won, did so because he argued to the very end for them. I'd never heard the term till then, so it was fun/amazing that you brought it up. (So see, you brightened my day, too.)

He was by far the most nimble minded of the players.

That certainly seems a lot like you, nimble minded.