[darlindeb25]

I procrastinate, I'm guessing anyways. As of late, I have been so tired, like, can hardly get up off the couch after a day of work. So, spending 5 minutes ordering B12 must have taxed my brain because I ordered it too late. Then again, learning experiences are always good! My B12 finally came yesterday, I had a one last Thurs, then one on Sunday..by Tuesday I was feeling the effects of my missing B12. By Wednesday, at the end of my 1 mile walk, I was exhausted, yesterday, my hips ached, my shoulders were screaming, and my feet on fire by the haplf way mark. This morning, the same, except right from the beginning. I am dog tired too, connected? Maybe.

So, I would like to know a few things. I take 5000mcg of Jarrow B12 daily..how much of that do we actually absorb. They say only part of it even gets where it needs to go, that some is just floating around in you not being used..is this true? 6 months ago, my B12 level was 1789, in June it came back at 1389. One friend told me that possibly my body was using more, maybe a flare in the neuropathy. I just never expected the level to go down instead of up. Would it be better to take a lesser amount 2X's daily instead of the 5000 once daily? To add, I do have malabsorption issues because of my gluten intolerance. I think I read you shouldn't take B12 at night, that it may keep you awake, so that could be another issue if I tried splitting the amount, I have issues with insomnia.

[mrsD]

I found taking my B12 at night helped me sleep! However, the Bcomplex, of all the B's tends to jive people up. (I think it is the folate that does it, myself).

B12 is used to make melatonin from serotonin.

Fatigue can be from other reasons. I am doing a trial of d-ribose and the details are on this thread:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread123731.html

Since I have started the ribose, I have much more physical stamina and better muscle functions. So far I am very pleased with it.

I guess I was slipping into not being as active as I once was. This may be metabolic for me, with insulin resistance, or part of my arthritis issues, etc. Then there is the PN to deal with and the hypothyroid. So I thought the ribose looked promising for helping the old sagging mitochondria out. And it is turning out that way for me.

B12 is stored in the liver. Skipping for a little while after being on it for a long time should not result in a severe reaction, one would think. But there can be an issue called "vitamin dependency". This is where the body gets used to very high doses of a vitamin and then changes to require it. It happens with B6 (people are born with this and it is called infantile spasms/seizures) and extremely high Vit C intake ala Linus Pauling's old recommendations often led to scurvy when dropped down to normal intake levels suddenly. While the literature does not include B12 as a inducer of vitamin dependency, it still is possible I think for it to occur.

[pabb]

Deb, do you have any liver issues? I am wondering if you are one of those with poor storage capacity?

[darlindeb25]

Deb, do you have any liver issues? I am wondering if you are one of those with poor storage capacity?

Not that I know...and how would you know or find out? I never thought of that...might be part of the absorption issue?

I found taking my B12 at night helped me sleep!

I never tried it at night because I read not too. This isn't the first time B12 has effected me this way. My doctor told me to go without it for a time so we could test my true level, and after one week, I went back on it, and he told me we didn't need to try testing in that way again.

[DejaVu]

Hi Deb!
Does the methyl B-12 (sublingual) negate the malabsorption issues related to gluten intolerance? I've thought I have read it bypasses the intestinal absorption issues (if absorbed sublingually)? Since you know more about your malabsorption issues, thought I'd ask your opinion on this.
I have found my toughest times of functioning to be caused by changes that are truly multifactorial in nature. On a rare occasion, I can trace it down to one factor; yet, this is incredibly rare.
If this continues for you, while taking your B-12, maybe try some d-ribose?
This makes a huge difference for me! I had started this last summer. It gives me so much more muscle strength, energy, stamina. This has really shown up in my ability to use muscles for walking! I enjoy an incredible difference!
(See MrsD's thread on this in her post above. I happen to use Jarrow's D-ribose and love it. I may try another brand soon, just to see if there is a difference in performance.)
Always happy to learn as to how things are going for you!
I hope you feel better soon!
~DejaVu

[darlindeb25]

Does the methyl B-12 (sublingual) negate the malabsorption issues related to gluten intolerance? I've thought I have read it bypasses the intestinal absorption issues (if absorbed sublingually)? Since you know more about your malabsorption issues, thought I'd ask your opinion on this.

I don't know the answer to this. I have no idea.

[DejaVu]

Hi Deb!
I had thought I had read the sublingual formulation was made for maximized absorption, esp. when anyone has GI absorption issues. I cannot tell you how much more is absorbed this way... exactly. If your methyl B-12 is a sublingual tab/lozenge, I would hope you will absorb a fair amount before it ever passes into your esophagus?
I wish I could find the resources I was reading the other day, as they were even putting forth the idea that the IM B-12 (injection) is less available to the body than a good sublingual? That's an interesting idea.

No worries... we will find the answers!

I hope you are feeling better!

~DejaVu

[darlindeb25]

Thanks...I think I read that before about injections versus sublingual too. I truly do not know how absorption works outside the intestines. I never even thought about it!

I do keep thinking about MrsD saying you develop a dependency on vitamins..just adds to the confusion!I can not get the vitamin and minerals I need from my food, I do not have enough variety in my diet any longer, not with all of my intolerances, so I have to take the vitamins.

Recently, I realized my melatonin was running out, and tried to cut back on it, along with the fact that the B6 level in it is raising my B6 level too much. I didn't even realize it had B6 in it..so much for my reading label skills! I was trying to cut back because I am going on vacation the end of the month, and don't want to run out before the vacation is over, plus I do not want to try the new brand until after vacation just in case I react to it. My gluten reactions are so strong, and last for at least a month and I don't want my vacation ruined by a med. Yesterday, I found the same brand in a higher dose..I take two-3mg's before bed, this one is 5mg, so I think I could get by with just 1 before bed. It has the same dose of B6 in one 5mg as it has in one 3mg, so in effect I will be cutting the B6 dose in half this way, which should be ok then.

Vitamins, minerals, and meds scare me, they so often are CC'd with gluten and once I find one I can trust, I do not want to give it up!

I have sleep apnea, and suffer insomnia. Giving up dairy truly helped with the insomnia, yet without the melatonin, I only sleep about 4 hours and am dead tired all the time. I'm guessing my body does not make enough of it's own natural melatonin.

Gluten is so evil!!!

[glenntaj]

--B12 megadosing is designed to allow approximately 1-2% of the dose to be absorbed passively through the mucous membranes in the digestive system, and not necessarily in the intestines. This happens only when it is taken by itself, though--the cobalamin molecule is the largest one the body regularly used metabolically, and it is easy to block absoprtion of it if one takes B12 with something else (even other B vitamins). The cobalamin molecule simply cannot compete very well with other things at membranes.

This is usually enough to sustain people--in a 1000mcg dose it means around 10-20mcg will be absorbed, and since the daily requirement is thought to be 4-8 micrograms, that's generally enough. But it is possible that people with ongoing conditions may need more (part of the reason some do 5000mcg doses).

And, I suspect absorption is more difficult for people with problems in that realm to begin with, such as for celiacs. At Cornell Weill, the usual recommendation for people with gluten problems is to go with a daily, seperate dose of 2000mcg and up, and many do 5000mcg as long as they don't get too jazzed up (which can happen with those doses) until their malabsorptin issues subside. (Interestingly, one of the more reliable ways of determining THAT is measure of non-supplemented winter vitamin D level.)

[DejaVu]

Hi Deb!
I can understand why you are so careful with your supplements!
If one exposure to gluten can mess you up for a month... wow!
It pays for you to be ultra careful!

Glentaj, Great info! I hope thia info helps our Deb today!

Have a great day, Deb!
We are all here for ya!
~DejaVu