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Old 09-13-2012, 07:07 AM #31
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From what I can see in some of the papers, PEA is not water soluble. Hence it would be difficult to get oral products made for oral use. Some of the papers on animals used injection.

http://www.hmdb.ca/metabolites/HMDB02100

More about solubility:
http://www.funakoshi.co.jp/data/datasheet/CAY/90350.pdf

This site explains the sachets are "ultra Micronized" for sublingual absorption. This means the particle size has been made very very small. I begs the question about the actual usefulness of the oral tablets, if the sachets need to be used first. I would wonder if the lack of side effects means not much is orally absorbed in the first place!
I cannot find bioequivalent data on absorption of PEA... drugs for example always have this data available.
http://www.ergomaxsupplements.com/no...00mg-tabletten

Here is the patent information:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2011/0171313.html
This product is specially produced with micronized product with a patent present. Hence you cannot get the PEA yourself and try it on your own, because it might not be absorbed at all.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:16 AM #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael777 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsD View Post
From what I can see in some of the papers, PEA is not water soluble. Hence it would be difficult to get oral products made for oral use. Some of the papers on animals used injection.
I have read quite a bit about palmitoylethanolamide, being a biologist, and various animal studies published used oral palmitoylethanolamide with positive results. The newer version of palmitoylethanolamide in Normast and in a new supplement PeaPure can resorb quite well under the tongue, and one cam measure not PEA but 2AG rising in the blood. PEA analytics in the blood is highly complicated and not usefull, as the compound shuttles into cells very quickly. PEA both in Normast as well as in PeaPure dissolves in the mouth quickly and vanishes without the first pass effect. Therefore sometimes migraine patients even use it to couteract an attack...
I would give it a try but its alot of money. My gut tells me Normast it self is a scam. How can we verify the contents of it since it is a supplment?

I would be willing to try it if they sent me some for free.

Last edited by mrsD; 11-07-2012 at 10:55 AM. Reason: fixing quote tags for clarity
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:28 PM #33
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Default Reply to Michael re Normast

Hi Michael *edit*
Unfortunately, the proof of Mr Keppel Hesselink's strange 'qualifications' (or lack of) comes from the Nederlands Vereniging tegen Kwaksalverij (The Dutch organisation dedicated to searching out cheats and quacks in the medical field). They are keeping a very close eye on his activities, especially when the same product is re-launched under another name and another non-kosher company. He can of course, take them to court and should do that if he is being misrepresented but I'm pretty sure that won't happen.
*edit* Keeping just on the right side of the law is all well and good but taking desperate people's money for a 'micronised' product (how is micronised not homeopathic? And why do the Dutch medication authorities only allow it to be sold under the title of homeopathic supplement?) Luckily more and more people are becoming aware of what's going on here and can make their own minds up before spending exorbitant amounts of money on a product that nobody can prove works. Self written endorsements are not proof in any way,shape or form.
People with neuropathy are sick to death of this sort of exploitation of their illness. It's bad enough that conventional treatments are all originally meant for other diseases and work only sporadically but people become desperate to find something that will relieve their symptoms - perfect territory for the con-man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael777 View Post
Nomast contains 300 mg palmitoylethanolamide in the 300 mg tablets and 600 mg in the Normast 600 mg tablets, and the purity is 100% acc. to the package information. Keppel Hesselink as far as I could check is fully registered as MD, as well as PhD and only some fanatic anti-quack's in the Netherlands are spreading those rumours about this doctor. Any one can check in the formal MD-register (BIG register) in the Netherlands that he is indeed a MD; only the anti-quick movement started to spread the rumour he is not and he is only an acupuncturist. So both your items, Drew, are not correct:
1. Normast is NOT homeapathic at all and
2. Keppel Hesselink is a qualified MD and
3. He can be found on the website of the German university as a professor molecular pharmacology and they even have a press release showing this all this, just google it up: keppel hesselink and Witten Herdecke. Than you will also see this university is active and in the air. The press release I quote:

PROF. JAN KEPPEL HESSELINK STELLT NEUEN WIRKSTOFF FÜR DIE BEHANDLUNG VON CHRONISCHEN SCHMERZEN VOR

Forscher der Universität Witten/Herdecke informiert in Italien über ein körpereigenes Molekül, das keine problematischen Nebenwirkungen hervorruft...

Who told you all these lies Drew? Someone from the anti-quack movement in the Netherlands? Best regards, Michael

Last edited by Chemar; 11-23-2012 at 01:09 PM. Reason: Posting guidelines
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:19 PM #34
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I would like to restate what I mentioned before.

Micronized means that the powder is ground very finely into tiny particles to enhance absorption.

It does NOT mean a tiny dose or a homeopathic dilution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronization

Micronized powders are often used in inhalers, so the drug is released quickly and more efficiently. I think in this case with Normast, since the drug is not easily absorbed, using the tiny particles may help it pass thru membranes more easily.

I also don't expect anyone here in the US to understand the classification of supplements in Netherlands. Each country would have its own rules, nomenclature etc.

I think the major obstacle to this product is the cost. There is just
a lack of reviews by patients describing success with it over these past years. All there really is that I can find are manufacturer sponsored testimonials.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:13 AM #35
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Default my experience with Normast

I am a person who has had very good results from using Normast. I first heard about it from an American woman whose cousin in Italy was using it for nerve pain caused by spinal cord cysts. Her neurosurgeon recommended it to her and told her the dosage. The American cousin, who has the same genetic condition, follows the advice of the Italian neurosurgeon in using it herself. The cousin in Italy buys it for her at a drugstore and mails it to her in California. She has never had a package stopped by customs.

I decided to order my Normast through the company in the Netherlands because they have an English website that was easy to use. I use it for autoimmune polyneuropathy. After 6 weeks, I saw some improvement and decided to up the dose to the higher dose recommended by my friend's cousin's doctor. I have seen about an 80% reduction in pain.

I consulted with my own doctor before upping my dose. She researched it and said it seemed safe and to go ahead and try it. She even wrote a letter to the FDA when my first package was stopped so they released it to me.

I have had 6 shipments of Normast. Two have been stopped, checked and released. The original problem was the package labeling was not according to US standards. When they changed the labels to American English, the packages came through faster. I don't know if it was because of the package changes or if I was just lucky. But I have never had a package turned back, just delayed while they investigated.

I have now started ordering the new PEAPure. My first package came through with no questions. We will see if that continues, because the PurePEA package labeling is not as good as the Normast.

Frankly, I am mystified by Drew's comments. Normast is not homeopathic. It has been studied and published in reputable journals. I know of one neurosurgeon in Italy who gives it to his patients. My own doctor investigated it and said it was legit. I think Drew must have some other agenda. He tells us not to trust Dr. Jan because we don't know him. But why should we trust Drew? He is just a user name on a forum.

You don't know me either, but I felt that I had to speak up. If you want to know if Normast is legit, read the pubmed article. mrsD posted a link to it a few posts back. It refutes claims that there is no evidence to support Normast's effectiveness.

By the way, I tried nerve medications (Lyrica and such) and could not tolerate them. I was weaning off of them when I started Normast. I am on Normast and a few other vitamins now and nothing else. It has been over a year. I have found that taking Normast twice a day now is sufficient for me.

Last edited by pepper999; 02-27-2013 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:15 AM #36
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Default Just wanted to add

that I have been away from the forums for awhile dealing with my aging parents. It shows me as a new member, but I have been here before.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:28 AM #37
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Question

There are a few levels for new members built into the software.

Newbies start out as "visitor", then move on to "new member"
and finally "member". It is all automatic and done by the software.

I see in your profile that you posted in 2011, then returned.

I would like to ask a few questions, if I may....
Has Normast done anything for your progression, or for numbness? What dose do you use currently?

I've read several pain forums and have seen numerous people say it didn't work. And it is very expensive. If they wanted to get more patients to try it, they should lower the price, and
word of mouth would bring them more profits thru more patients. One way some supplement companies work is to charge high prices because there will always be some who are impressed by that. Placebo effect and all that.

Edit to say: I believe the confusion about Jan K Hesselink comes from these two profiles on Linkedin:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Jan/Keppel+Hesselink
Looks like the same person, worked as VP at Bayer, when to the same university, same age, same appearance but very different other information. I know I find it confusing.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:57 PM #38
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It is the same person.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:01 PM #39
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Smile Normast

I have been pretty stable for the past year. I would say the pain is not progressing. I have pain flares but they are not as bad and they go away after a few days or hours. Then I have days or weeks of very low pain, the kind you can ignore if you put your mind on something else. That has been the pattern for all of 2012. I used to be in unrelenting high pain. I have not had a lot of numbness, mostly pain, so I can't say about the numbness, sorry.

When I started the Normast, I went as high as 600mg 4 times a day. Now I have cut down to 300 mg twice a day. But when I run out of my tablets, I will switch to the PEAPure twice a day, which comes in 400 mg capsules. I actually have the PurePEA already, but am using up the last of my Normast tablets right now.

I have tried taking Normast 600mg once a day, but that didn't seem to work well. To save money, I cut the 600mg tablets in half rather than ordering the 300mg tablets. That worked OK.

I'm glad the new form is a capsule. I think they are easier to digest than tablets. I suspect that the sweetened powder form that people start on just works better because it is quicker/easier to digest. Some older people or people with digestion problems would likely do better on the powder. I messaged Dr. Jan about it via another forum. He told me to try the tablets to save money, but that some people need the powder. My friend in California always takes the powder, not the tablets. The powder costs more, though, so I switched to the tablets and they seemed OK for me.

I also take some supplements that I read about on this forum, I think from you. I started with higher doses, then experimented with those until I got to as low a dose as seemed OK to save money on those, too. It took a lot of experimenting to find a dose that was affordable and effective.

My neuropathy is idiopathic, but likely autoimmune. It was confirmed by a skin punch biopsy. I was then tested for everything under the sun but all came back negative. That's when I got the label idiopathic and likely autoimmune. Because of the autoimmune suspicion, I also have tried dietary changes. I tried eliminating a lot of common allergens. So far, only gluten seems to be suspect, so I avoid that. I find that keeping my blood sugar stable and eating a very healthy diet also helps.

I know that not everyone responds to Normast. Dr. Jan recommends to trying it for 2 months and if you see no improvement, then you are likely not a responder and you should stop. I decided it was worth the expense of a 2-month trial, so I did it. And it did seem to help, so I continued it. Slowly I improved to the way I am now.

I wish I knew what was causing the neuropathy in the first place so that it would go away completely. But that doesn't seem likely. At my age, 50+, it is more likely that it will get worse as I get older. I hope that Normast becomes more widely used and available. Meanwhile, I will have to keep ordering it from the Netherlands. And will have to keep pinching the budget to pay for it. Not so bad now that I am on a lower dose, though.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:18 PM #40
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Thank you for the expanded post, pepper.

You see, pharmaceutical preparations are tricky. One thing that
bothers me about this product is that only the sachets are listed as micronized. PEA...the ingredient is not really very soluble and hence is difficult to get absorbed into people. I found the patent online for solubilizing/micronizing the powder itself.

I personally think making a transdermal product would be better, and more bioavailable. But that is just my opinion. Perhaps even making a nano liposomal form like glutathione and Curcumin are coming out with now, would be better for bioavailability.

We'll have to see how it all works out over time. Thanks for your postings.
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