Hi Daniella,

Boy, recovering from anorexia is a HUGE accomplishment. That is BIG. You have done a dynamite thing. I sure hope you are really proud of yourself.

(((((((((Daniella)))))))))))

When I was your age and waited tables, (well a few years earlier) I compared how much I made to how much I'd made when I was in management at AT&T. I made no less, maybe more waiting tables; and it's a much healthier job.

****

so have you not been dizzy since you stopped taking the B12?

*****

in terms of your level being high... I'm pretty sure mine must be in the thousands... I think it's important to remember that the "normal" levels are arrived at, as far as I know, in relation to healthy people.

*****

Because there are so many things on telly all the time about dangerous this and that... and herbs get much longer coverage if the news is bad than say VIOXX... I used to worry a lot if I had a shot a week, before a doctor put me on that amount.

I think we are encouraged to worry about taking vitamins...

But in reality thousands of people die every year from over the counter things, and the number who die from prescription drugs is astronomical... but not covered by the news all that much.

((((((((daniella))))))))

Thanks. I don't know if I would say I'm proud but know I had to if that makes sense? I hope to be proud. As for the b12 I have not had the severe dizzy but I have had an out of it still sometimes. The dizzy though has lessened since I stopped it. If it does come its not for so long. My symptoms have been so weird. I often get a flu out of it feeling. All my tests don't give a why though. I'm hoping at u of m for more direction and pain relief for my legs. The only reason I stopped the b12 was because it was after I had started taking it I got the dizzy.Also my b12 levels range from 1500-2000 the 2000 was before the b12 and after I started it went down to 1500. In my dream world I would take nothing. I mean no vitamin ,med,so on. That is not possible but I always worry about side effects.Can pn cause dizzy symptoms? I think if I don't get better soon I may look into holistic. I will wait till after my neuro apt,pain clinic at u of m and anastesolgist though.

Hi daniella,

one thing that comes to mind is Teflon... do you cook with it at all?

I used to have some really nice pans, but every time I sauteed garlic I got the flu thing...

So I replaced all my pans with plain steel ones.

...

Yes, I know... taking nothing, just eating well...

I don't see me being able to do without B12, though...

Maybe? I don't know what my pans are. Why would that be though? I think if you found something that works and its healthy then you should stick with it. My issue is I try things and then not only have the pain but other issues. I need to start eating healthier. I gained the weight and eat a lot but not the best choices. Thanks your a sweet lady. All you ladies and gents are!

Daniella:

I think she means that when you use a cheap teflon pan, the teflon coating can come off and go into your food. Not healthy at all.

The stainless steel pans are better. Just use Pam or PUR, or some healthy no stick alternative.

I hate food when it sticks, Drives me nuts.

And the fact that you overcame anorexia is a major cool thing.

My friend is battling Stage 3 lung cancer (doesn't look good) but what's doing her in is her anorexia. She's 59, and has it since she's about 19 or so.

Cost her her marriage, her kids, her whole family can't stand her. They blame her for everything. They think "why can't she just eat".

I once tried to explain that it's a disorder, but they just wrinkled their noses.

Yeah, I know, some people get it, and some people don't.

She has been in and out of eating disorder clinics many many times. Not one of them ever took. I never understood why.

She would be riding in the car with me and ask "Melody, how many calories are in a piece of lettuce"??? That one really got to me. I just said "we are not going in that direction today, we are going out to dinner".

She actually ate a swiss cheese omelette with lettuce and tomatoes. I was thrilled. I had actually never seen her eat anything in my life.

But now, with her illness, she's not eating anything. She must have some strong heart to have lasted this long.

So you pat yourself on the back. It's not easy, I fully understand this.

Melody

I've been inundated doing the court things today, and only now checked my messages and saw the notification for this topic.

Actually, even if you have the most expensive Teflon pans, for instance I'd paid nearly $70 each for mine back when I was a Realtor, the fact is that when they heat up to a certain temperature, as for instance that to sautee garlic... they give off fumes, and the fumes make you/me feel like we have the flu.

I mentioned this to my therapist back when I first found out about my brain damage, and she said she'd lost dozens of love birds from Teflon heating up like that. Just once... after that she got rid of her pans.

I saw an investigative piece on it on telly, and then I googled it, this is several years ago, now.

Teflon is not good for our health.

*****

Melody, I'm so sorry to read about your friend.

Did you ever see the quite good program Oprah did on anorexia? There was a clinic someplace, I forget where, that focused on giving people a lot of love and positive reinforcement. Just a huge amount of warmth and love, and they had a tremendously good result. But I think it was pretty expensive because it was intensive people to people care.

Thanks guys. I'm going to buy some new pans today. I don't need any other issues. I feel I'm becoming narotic though on all my worries but better safe then sorry.
Melody, I'm sorry for your friend and I remember. I thank you for your praise. It has been the hardest thing of my life but I hope to write a book of my 12 year battle. When someone has a severe ed it effects there brain. You see how destructive you are rationally but the fear of changing is so scary. Its like your addicted to self destruction. Really to recover you have to be willing to do what ever it takes and sit with the anxiety and fear. The longer it goes on the harder it is to get through because you loose more through the ed and it become a lifestlye almost. I know many of my past docs thought I would never recover but a year and half ago I began to use the tools I learned and realised I had to get physically healthy to have a chance at a life. Don't give up on your friend but really there is only so much others can do. I had the best of care, my parents sent me to prgrams that costed 1500 a day and I always fell back. Not until two years ago almost did I commit and use the tools I learned. Its a daily battle to make the right choices but I do it cause I know being physically healthy and nurished is the start to a better life. Its not about food or weight but the reasons so when people say why don't you eat to her it doesn't help. She has to work on the reasons behind the ed and face them but being nursihed is a must. The best for others to do is encourage her to get support in therapy and nutritionist. You can tell her about me and my long history and how I lost everything but before the pn I was rebuilding my life with school,friend,job but I had to gain and reach a healthy weight to get to that. Its a hard adjustment getting used to a new body,lifestyle,and coping mechanism but its the only chance for better.She can email me too. You may think she won't but if you give her the address she just may. You would be suprised deep down I'm sure she wants to recover.
Todays goal to buy pans and figure out my move issue because now it may be CA where I was planning on moving after my treatment cause I knew a few people and like the area but will see. Just wish my mom would be closer for support. I'm not big on change which was an issue before and the pn has forced me to have to which is hard. Not only with the move but other issues.

Hi daniella,

(((((((((daniella)))))))))))

Boy, your message is quite inspiring. Thank you for writing that.

I don't know what "ed" is, though. What is that?

I feel as if you are talking to me because it's so hard for me to keep doing this court stuff. It all seems hopeless and like a stressful, traumatic waste of my time.

Yet, like you, I know that there are things that if I do them will make an improvement. Only it doesn't seem like it. It feels almost the opposite.

So your post really helped me... I'm almost finished correcting my appeal brief, and NT people have helped me SOOOO much.

You included. Thank you!

((((((((((daniella))))))))))

Oh, after I turned out the lights last night I realized that I'd written that about Teflon a bit wrong...

I'm not sure it's "fumes" as much as it is that something in the Teflon vaporizes at certain temperatures... and you can't really smell it if you're sauteeing garlic or onions. But it causes a flu feeling.

The problem I had was that because of my disability and memory problems, I'd almost always let the garlic get just a tad too hot... I'd try to remember but I'd forget. And then the garlic would get just a little burned and that's when the vaporizing happens I think... I think that's the temperature where the Teflon vaporizes out the stuff that is bad for us.

So I'm REALLY glad you're going to get some different pans.

Happiness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And buying new (not teflon) pans. So thanks much for that tip.

Daniella:

No one can help my friend. Not at this stage of the game. She has Stage 4 lung cancer now, spreak to everyplace. All they can do is give her drugs and more drugs. She now has an attendant 24 hours (which she hates) but she refused to go into a hospital because she knew they would put a feeding tube in her. I asked her mother "isn't she bad enough, that they can do this for her own good??" and the mother said "you won't believe this but no, they can't, she is able to say no to everything, and she has refused all therapy, all EVERYTHING.

I was there the day the nutritionist came to her house. She paid this person $70.00. I have no why she did this because I knew she wouldn't do a single thing the nutritionist said that she should do and this was 18 months ago. Because she did not do what she was supposed to do (follow the menu prescribed), she did not feed her body and you can't do chemo, and fight cancer, if you don't get nutrition, right?

No one can speak to her. Like I said, since she's 19. In and out of eating disorder clinics. It's a mental illness. I know this. She became bulimic and had to have a stomach operation. She then took laxatives. Her goal is never to go above 100 lbs. I remember the day she told all of us her diagnosis. She has been just diagnosed with Stage 3, and we all went to her house and we did the motivational thing and we (gently) explained that she had to start eating a bit more. Not that she had to balloon up or anything, but just that she had to start drinking ensure and eating greens, and protein, you know common sense stuff.

She would go "oh, absolutely, I completely agree, I do eat". Then we all found out she never ate a thing. People would bring her cooked foods, chicken soup, broth, simple things. She would take two sips and that was it.
Her mental illness and depression (forgive me for calling this a mental illness, but I did watch a special on the discovery channel and that's how they referred to it). Well, in her mind, nothing clicked. She didn't relate to fighting the cancer but eating properly. She would not allow herself to pick up a morsel of food.

So her mother visits her but won't let her move into her apartment, her children completely gave up on her. Her daughter caused a scene in the hospital room when she went in for the removal of the tumor on her aorta. Her daughter started to scream at her in front of everybody. "do you know you're gonna die??? and you refuse to eat???" Well, the brother had to carry the sister out bodily.

The grandmother (my friend's mother), won't talk to her own grandaughter. There is depression that runs down the line in this family. Everyone is on anti-depressants. There's a relationship between anorexia and depression, right?? The same way with compulsive overeating (like I used to be). I self-medicated with food. That's how I used to cope with stress.

I had to learn (or shall I say un-learn bad eating habits). and replace these bad habits with good eating habits. Have you seen the new abc series "Fat March???" They have a bunch of people way over 400 lbs and they are just walking off the fat , walking 500 miles. And by the end of the show, they just might succeed. But their food choices were absolutely fascinating.

They had already marched 150 miles and most lost up to 40 lbs. So they were at the end of the day and there were two tables of food. One table had grilled chicken, grilled salmon and salad. The other table had fried chicken, pizza, etc. Well, you would not believe it but some of the obese people (who had lost 40 lbs or better), actually went up and got the pizza and fried chicken. They said "I want to eat". They walked 8 hours that day, and could have eaten a very nice grilled salmon or chicken but they made a different choice. One 430 lb guy took one look at the salad and said "that's nasty, it has oranges and almonds in it". The nutritionist said "so take out the almonds and oranges and just eat the salad". The guy was determined to eat his pizza.

I find this thinking absolutely fascinating because I once thought like that. I could put away 4 slices of pizza in 5 minutes. It's all a habit and I had to learn the hard way to change my thinking process.

And, you generously offered to email my friend. I thank you so much for that.

She has two computers in her house and never learned to use either one of them. I tried to put her on my computer and do a video for her grandchildren so they could always have a video of her. We made the video but she would not send it. I once printed out a list of support groups for people with her condition. I told her "maybe if you hang around with others who fight the same problem (like I go to gam-anon groups), then maybe you might find an answer??" She would not go.

Anorexia has disturbed her mind as well. It's not going to change in her case because she is so sick. I plan on visiting her this week but I'm sure she will sleep through the whole visit because of all the medication she is on. I do speak to her nurses and to her mother. This is very hard for her because she has to deal with the obnoxious grandaughter.

I don't want to even think what is going to take place when she passes on because her daughter will go absolutely nuts in the funeral parlor. Oh brother.

But we do each day as best we can.

Daniella, you have accomplished great things. I am very proud of you.

Hi Melody and daniella -

I just read Melody's post and it reminded me that when I was in the ER with the seizures from tetanus, there was a young girl in the cloth cubicle next to mine who had tried to kill herself.

And from what I could hear she didn't eat and had an eating disorder.

The blood tech was having a hard time drawing blood from me, so we talked, and I was telling him how B12 helps in depression.

He said, yes, and of his friends who took B12, there were those who began to eat more.

I understand that your friend is dying. I think that is the desired result of many eating disorders... Sadly.