so sorry you have to go through this. your husband sounds so very difficult.
i wish there were happy pills you could get into him.
good about the minimum. it sounded as if a disaster was avoided.
good thoughts
bobby

I used to talk to my brother about what went on, but he got tired of hearing it- he hates my husband. I had been confiding in my aunt about what was going on for years (my uncle was an emotionally abusive alcoholic, too), and had told my sister why I was not pushing to reconcile with my husband after he kicked me out because she kept telling me to go home.
When I attempted s/s my husband and I were still separated. While I was in the hospital, my aunt got into more detail with my sister about the goings on and for some reason, my sister decided it was a good idea to tell my husband everything I had said about him.
Over a year later, he still flips out every now and then and tells me to call all my whole family to tell them I'm a liar.
So, I don't confide in my family anymore. In fact, now my sister thinks I'm a liar and he's a ****ing saint. Since my second hospitalization, she has grown distant anyway. And I have little to do with my brother or that aunt anymore.

I had a very close friend that I confided everything in, but I ended up sending a break up letter to her a couple of years ago during a period of paranoia (long story). I scared my few "good" close friends away between my mania and s/s attempt. The few friends I have left aren't close, aside from one I correspond with, but she gets distracted a lot.

I love my husband very much, but there are obvious issues in our marriage. I usually don't even end up bringing them up in therapy unless there's a fresh wound. I just try to move on when I can. He can be scary when he loses his temper (a fairly regular occurrence). I usually just do what I can to try to avoid having it directed at me (fairly irregular).

Kay

I'm so glad you were given the minimum. Hoping things straigthen out
some as time goes. And you get your license back.

Donna :hug::grouphug:

Thank you for sharing...
(((((HUGS)))))
bizi

I was able to view my labs online today. My eosinophils and some electrolytes were a little elevated, but I had been sweating out a fever the morning before my appointment so I'm not surprised. Thyroid levels were off again (but he raised my synthroid already). Otherwise everything was normal. My vitamin D level was in the mid 60s which is okay, but having MS I should be shooting for the 80s so I'll increase my dose.

I got no apology from my husband. He let Wednesday's events go, but was throwing temper tantrums, but nothing major.
I think part of the reason he's been so bad is that he hasn't been drinking because he's been taking cold medicine at night. His cold has been clearing up though.

We need to have a talk about his temper. I've done this in the past and he's worked on it with (temporary) good results. Although I don't expect to be very successful this time because I think he'll have a laundry list of excuses including his cold. But colds and the flu are wide spread right now, everyone goes through tough times, and God knows I'm going through my own issues, but that doesn't give him the right to behave like this.

If the conversation goes badly and/or he can't control his temper I think I'll stay at a hotel for a night to get away from him. Frankly I need a break from this, and maybe he'll realize how intolerable his behavior has been and make an attempt to correct it. On the other hand, I can see him going ape **** if I even suggest that I'm going to stay at a hotel.

Whatever, I'll try.

Dear Kay,

The labs look pretty good.

I hope that talking to him works.

M

Kay

Good luck. Personally I agree with the night away if he is mad or angry.

Donna :hug::grouphug:

good idea kay.
you don't deserve to be treated that way.
((((HUGS)))))
bizi

I didn't get into a deep conversation with him about his temper because he came home in a good mood, but he remarked he hadn't been drinking because he was taking the cold medicine and I told him I'd noticed- his temper had been ****ing horrible. Aside from the day he took me to the appointment, he hadn't noticed :confused: Anyway, his cold has cleared up and he bought beer.

I've been having mild cold symptoms for a while, but the cold really kicked in yesterday and my cough is just terrible now. My husband was actually making fun of me… this is a man who would actually growl every time he'd cough or sneeze. He said he was just teasing me, but I asked him what he'd do if I'd dared to make fun of him when he was sick, and he said he'd ****ing flip out. So, he got the picture and stopped.

Sometimes he's a pain in the *** when he's in a good mood.

The cold is no fun, but I've had worse. I'm up early again (5:30am) and couldn't fall back asleep because my mouth got too dry from breathing out of my mouth…
It reminded me that I have sleep apnea. I was diagnosed 15 years ago and I really don't think about it, but I know I was under 140lbs then and I'm 160 now. Maybe it's worse because of the rapid weight gain and that's contributing to the fatigue? I gained 45lbs in a little over a year, 15lbs of that being much more recent. I'll bring it up at my neuro appointment tomorrow.

My husband stayed in a good mood yesterday with no teasing. I was grouchy though lol. I had to go to the pharmacy and wanted to get the food shopping over with. It was packed, and for some reason everyone was treating the grocery store like a meeting hall and they were blocking all the aisles having conversations. You run into that from time to time, but it was rampant, so it was bizarre, and very frustrating. A very good day for people watching though :)

sorry you got up so early...mouth breathing sucks!
maybe you can take a nap before the super bowl?
Perhaps that is why everyone was so chatty????
sending good wishes your way.
bizi

Kay,

That's a good description of how it works sometimes.:Head-Spin:

Mari

Bizi, It was mainly people who didn't speak english and elderly folks jamming up the aisles. Maybe they were talking about the Super Bowl, but I doubt it.

I did get a nap in before the game. I slept from about 12:30 to 4 and was able to stay up to watch the whole thing. I'm happy for Manning he got his 2nd ring and can got out on top (I hope he's wise enough to retire now cuz he's done), but he didn't win that game- his defense did.
I felt bad for Cam Newton and the rest of the Panthers. They played such great football all year, but the better team won. Newton is an excellent quarterback though, and he's young. He'll get to the Big Game again. Their owner seems willing to spend the dough to keep the team very competitive.
I do feel vindicated that the Bronco's defense kicked the Pathers' butts just like they did the Patriots' though. Everyone was so hard on Brady after the AFC Championship, but the Pats put 8 more points on the board than the Panthers.

I got the first of the two new pill cutters I ordered. Like most splitters, there's a rubber mat that's designed to prevent the pills from sliding out of position, and a window to check to be sure the pill is aligned properly. It can cut through a 400mg uncoated seroquel horse pill perfectly and very easily, but it's pretty much no good for small pills. They slide out of position too easily even when lined up properly and too much of the pill gets crushed.

I use my PCP's "patient portal" and read my last visit summary. There really never is a summary, but I noticed he added "major depressive disorder" as a diagnosis. I am mad and extremely disappointed in him. He's an excellent PCP and usually he listens to me and doesn't jump to conclusions, but I'm ****** because he went med-blind the last visit and now he thinks I must also be suffering from an erroneous depressive disorder because I'm tired all the time?
But I can think of a couple of things that may have stirred that up in his mind though. He must have forgotten about the s/s attempt and asked about the scar on my neck (how you can forget about that I don't know), and he asked again about reducing the seroquel and I said I couldn't because it also treated the PTSD and intrusive thoughts and he kind of shushed me. Or maybe he felt my desperation to find a medical reason for the fatigue because I want it to be temporary? Maybe to him, all that turned the medical visit into a psych visit once the labs came back clean.

Anyway, I have the appointment with my neurologist today. I forgot to mention almost everything I wanted to on my last visit, so I made myself some notes. Now after the **** with my PCP I have it in my head that my neuro will treat me like just another psych patient, too. If he does, I'll just offer up pdoc. My neurologist has a much better understanding of how meds work on the brain than my PCP does. If he decides that the meds are what have exacerbated the fatigue, I'll accept that. But I absolutely refuse to fall into the psych pile.

good luck with your neuro today.
I hope he is attentive and tells you something to explain your fatigue...
gives you some answer.
((((HUGS))))
bizi

I always call my cab 40 minutes before appointments even though my doctors are all less than 15min away from my house. I'm usually pretty early…

Not today. I called and the dispatcher said it would be an hour before he could get a cab here because of the snow and they're short on drivers.

I didn't even realize it was snowing out yet! The last time I looked was around 11 and we have about an inch and a half out there already.

I called the neuro's office and the secretary's gone right now, so I don't even know if they'll be able to see me today. I'm waiting for a call back.

Hope they can see you Kay.

Donna :hug::grouphug:

were you able to be seen? rescheduled?

bizi

Kay,

Re your PCP:
Our docs disappoint us when they mess up.
We need them to "get" it because the family
members cannot handle and process all the info.
We need every doc to be fully alert and suited up
and ready. Sorry he was lacking.

I hope you feel good about the nuero visit.

You are doing so well
Handling all the business of getting well and staying well.

M

Thank you Mari :hug:

I was able to get to my appointment and I wasn't thrown into the psych pile :)

I already knew it was MS fatigue. And so did he.

I asked if it could have gotten worse more recently because I'm having a true relapse. He said it was hard to say because fatigue and cognitive problems don't correlate well to lesions on MRI (so no MRI- yay!) and he didn't notice much difference on my physical exam. I didn't do well on the cognitive exam. It was close to 2pm.

He thinks the sleep apnea is probably contributing to the fatigue because being 20lbs heavier than my baseline is significant, but he doesn't see the point in ordering a sleep study if I'm probably not going to be compliant with a CPAP (which I wasn't able to do in the past).

He thinks that a number of factors could be exacerbating the fatigue including the meds. He agreed that increasing the synthroid was the right direction to go in given my situation and was happy I increased my Vit. D.

He recommended trying a drug called amantadine at a low dose. It's an antiviral that I've never heard of, but apparently they've been using it to treat MS fatigue for a long time. I read that it's only 20-40% effective in treating moderate MS fatigue, but I usually do more research than I've done thus far. He said it isn't a stimulant, but it's listed as one on some sites and I read that it can cause jitteriness and can cause sleeplessness if taken too late in the day, so I have some concerns that it may trigger an episode…

I'm going to pick it up from the pharmacy Thursday on my way home from my counseling appointment. I want to give it a shot, but I think I should talk to pdoc before I take it. I don't know if I should call her? Or wait until I see her on the 22nd?

I noticed the new jeans I bought are looser on me, so I got on the scale this morning and I've lost about 4lbs since the last time I weighed myself on it… probably 2 weeks ago? I'm guessing the synthroid had something to do with that. I started taking it a week ago, but I've cut down on the devil dogs, too ;)

This new medication sounds promising, just please take it early in the day. I bet your fatuigue also has to do with your sleep apnea. They make different types of cpap devices have you tried other kinds?
crossing my fingers for you!
bizi

Kay,

I was on amantadine in the 90s because I had been complaining about brain fog.
The pdoc said that early studies showed that it helped with Alzheimer's.

Congrats on the weight loss. :)



M

Thank you Mari :)
Did the amantadine help you at all? I guess that it's also used in Parkinson's disease.

I have my first appointment with my substance abuse counselor tomorrow. I have to arrive half an hour early because I guess there's a lot of paperwork to fill out. I decided to take a peek at the paperwork the counselor from drunk.org gave me…

OMG WTF!!! I thought I was just signing off on the narrative she read me, and that was bad enough. I should know better than to sign a blank page. There's a section by section summary of the interview filled with outrageous errors or misrepresentations… I hit the roof! I loved reading that I "frequently suffer from severe hallucinations," and seeing gross exaggerations of my drinking. Then I freaked out because I realized that my substance abuse counselor would be receiving this report….

So I called my case manager at drunk.org. I explained that their counselor who interviewed me might have had a hard time understanding what I was saying because of the complexity of the psych element in my case, but I didn't want my substance abuse counselor to view this report and doubt my truthfulness. I was 100% honest in that interview. My case manager said that I could send her an email with the particular errors, but she will make a note in my case file that there were errors in the report and both of us discussing the issue with my counselor could do the job, too. She said that it was good that I called because these things are important to note in my case file. I apologized for freaking out because I suffer from anxiety, but she said she thought I handled the situation well. I think she's FOS because I called before the klonopin kicked in.

My substance abuse counselor is a licensed therapist so I'm hoping she has a working knowledge of bipolar disorder, but then again, my case manager told me so is the counselor who did my evaluation :confused:

I had to take 1 mg of klonopin to calm down, setting myself up for a long nap in the near future. But when I wake up, I plan to just let this go. I think it is understandable that someone could get confused if they're not well acquainted with bipolar disorder. If this counselor has issues understanding it, we'll just have to take things slow. It should be much easier for me to explain things since my appointment will be at 1 vs. 4:30pm (without a nap).

so sorry that this happened, glad that you caught the errors and were able to make that call.
Hope things go ok for you tomorrow.
bizi

Kay,

I do not know whether the amantadine helped me. I did stay on it for years in case it was helping me.

Are these the people you are dealing with:
~drunk org counselor
~Substance abuse counselor / licensed therapist
~Case manager


Geeze. It almost sounds like you need a lawyer with you at these meetings:
The folks who focus on the drinking do often miss the psych.
I applaud you for your stamina and attention to detail in getting these things right.

Yep. Be the teacher.

Good luck with the appt today. I am glad that it is at a good time for you.

M

Both the counselor from drunk.org and my substance abuse counselor are licensed drug and alcohol counselors as well as licensed therapists. Under my case manager's email heading it just says "care coordinator." I think if she had credentials, they would probably be there.

I am going to ask my substance abuse counselor directly how familiar she is specifically with bipolar I disorder because of the differences that exist between hypomania and mania and the psychosis element. I don't have a problem with teaching. I'd just rather do it in advance because it I think things get convoluted when you try to do it along the way. However, I would have preferred to do this on a day when I didn't wake up at 5:30am.

I'm not worried about speaking with her. What does worry me is having to answer standardized questions about my drinking. My drinking pattern was never consistent because I mainly binged when I was having an episode, and I never know when they're talking about. For example, I only drank 1-2 beers a month for 4 months in 2015, but in 2014 I had at least 6 episodes including one episode of mania that lasted from September to December and they all were associated with drinking...

I know I'm not the first person who's had this issue. A lot of people without bipolar disorder are binge-drinkers, too. They must have a hard time describing their drinking patterns and answering those questions- they just don't have all the psych **** to further complicate things.

I already have copies of the letters from pdoc and tdoc in my purse so I won't forget them. I'm sure everything will go fine. The counselor sounded very nice on the phone, and my case manager said that they have worked with her in the past and all the clients liked her.

how did it go?
bizi:o

Kay,

This makes sense --- to have the conversation about definitions and terminology and time periods clear before the question/answer period.


What you describe sounds like bipolar to me and would be understandable to anyone who was familiar with bipolar.
It is also consistent with the inconsistency of bingers.




M

My counselor is a very nice lady, but she doesn't seem to understand I have my own therapist. She said she wants to help me have a happy meaningful life or something along those lines. I reminded her I was there for substance abuse counseling, but she said that was part of it.

I asked her how familiar she was with bipolar I and she said "very," but she refers to hypomania as hypermania. I told her I wanted to start off by telling her why I stopped drinking and while I did tell her my drinking was mainly binging associated with hypo/manic episodes we never really got off the topic of bipolar disorder because that's all she wanted to talk about. Most of the conversation was restricted to the events leading up to my s/s attempt until the present, but we discussed how my bipolar disorder has always been very active but it was not as destructive when I was working because I had an outlet.

She doesn't think alcohol is really my problem… You're gonna love this…

She doesn't really like the idea of me going out alone or getting my license back yet because I've only been out of the hospital for 6 months and could have another episode :eek: :eek::eek: She was concerned I wouldn't ask for help if I had another episode even though she had the letters, I told her about how closely I stay in contact with pdoc, and explained all I had done in the last year to manage my bp.

I think that is a major overreaction and it shows that she lacking in the "understanding bipolar disorder" department. However, I did not say that. She said she did not want to upset me. I very calmly said she had and I said that I thought she was being discriminatory based on the fact that I was bipolar… people with bipolar disorder can have episodes at anytime and they shouldn't be locked away. I reiterated the progress I had made and repeated how close my relationship with pdoc is multiple times. She repeated her concern that I would have another episode multiple times.

Although she has these concerns, she asked me how many sessions drunk.org had recommended and she told me she always does the minimum. So, I think that she will ultimately will discharge me after 6 sessions. But if she writes in her notes that I shouldn't be driving for any reason, that could be damning.

I feel like I am constantly putting out fires!!!

Pdoc is my primary provider. She knows my history and is more qualified to make assessments about my mental health than a therapist I will only be seeing for a few visits. I see her on the 22nd. I'm going to ask her to write a letter to or call this counselor to let her know how diligent I am in reporting all my psych symptoms and I shouldn't be precluded from driving because I'm bipolar. I have a feeling both my pdoc and tdoc are going to be outraged over this.

I also need letters from 2 people that say that alcohol is no longer part of my life. The first one is no problem- my husband. I know this is sad but… I haven't seen a friend or family member (aside from my father who lives in Florida in the winter) since March. But I've been in pretty close telephone contact with one of my friends who lives nearby and I think he'll write a letter for me.

I'm afraid to take the amantadine while I'm in substance abuse counseling. These counselors are supposed to be assessing your threat to reoffend. Since my bipolar disorder triggers my drinking, and I was bagged for DUI while I was manic, I have little doubt she would view another episode as a threat to reoffend. If I have another episode and I can't hide it, I don't see this lady releasing me from substance abuse counseling no matter what I do. There are even cases where counselors recommend licenses be suspended indefinitely. It would be hard to fight.
I'm going to have to do a lot of research on amantadine and talk to pdoc before I make the decision on whether or not to take it. I find it incredibly unfair that I'm finding myself in a situation where an arbitrary person is having influence over a decision like this…

She's a very nice lady but rather than feeling like she's a person who will pull me up, she's pulling me down. If she had it her way, she'd lock me away, and she may be robbing me of the opportunity of trying a med that can improve my life by reducing my fatigue because I'm afraid of ruining my chances of getting my license back.

I really can't wait for your comments on this one...

she sounds like a do gooder who does rotten. how awful.
bobby

lol. Sounds about right in this case… bordering on the ridiculous.

The usual dose of amantadine is 100mg twice a day. I called the pharmacy to ask what dose my neuro ordered… 50mg in the morning… very conservative. I called and left a message for pdoc asking if she thought the med was safe for me to take. When she calls back I will mention my appointment with the substance abuse counselor.

You were very patient with her. She sounds completely nuts (and maybe not very bright).

M

OMG kay.
how awful!
She has no right to have this much power over you. yes get letters and speak to your tdoc and pdoc.
You sound like you did very well in sticking up for your self.
You definitely need your medical team to fight this.
It would be terrible if she let your bipolar diagnosis prevent you from getting your license back.
bizi
(((((HUGS)))))

can't you just tell her that the seroquel is preventing manias and that anyways you have some warning if a mania was coming and you could seek help.
bobby

That's the thing, I told her all that! And I told her that I was much better at recognizing the warning signs now. When I mentioned overspending, it didn't seem like she knew it was a symptom?!

I forgot to take my pills yesterday and it was too late to take them by the time I realized it. I ended up really missing the seroquel anxiety-wise and by early evening I was having visceral reactions (I absolutely cannot stand feeling like that) to recurring thoughts surrounding the substance abuse counseling. But I had skipped my nap and I figured it was too late in the day to take klonopin because of the big dose of pm seroquel… I should have just taken the ****ing klonopin… I had zero relief until the seroquel finally knocked me out.

I haven't been that agitated in a while and it worries me because of the timing… I just revisited the whole s/s business and I did it in what was obviously an unsafe environment. It was not a good time to forget my meds, and I'm hoping that's all it was. I feel okay this morning but tired (which is a good sign), but just in case there IS a med plan in place that I can begin to deploy on my own until the office opens and I can get in touch with pdoc.

I don't like therapy, and I like the idea of dual-therapy even less, but I'm thinking of moving up the appointment with my regular tdoc if I can. I have a feeling this nice lady is going to be toxic.
I'm going to have to do some work on my own to mitigate the damage. That involves taking klonopin regularly again to manage my anxiety, and trying to press the reset button. In our next session, I need to take back control at the very start and set the pace and direction from there on out.

I didn't get a chance to talk to pdoc on the phone yesterday about the appointment because she had one of the girls in the office call me back about the amantadine. My neuro sent her notes about our last appointment. So, the message was she encouraged me to take it, but to be on the look out for blurry vision, constipation, and dry mouth because I'm taking it in conjunction with seroquel.
I'm much more comfortable with the thought of taking it due to her encouragement and the conservative dose, but after yesterday I think it's a good idea to wait a few days. I want to make sure that the agitation is due to missing my meds and being overtired and irritable. I don't want to add a new med into the mix if there's ANY chance something brewing.

Hi kay,
It was too bad that you missed your meds during this really stressful time.
Sorry that you had such anxiety.
I think you are wise to wait a few days before adding the medication. I think you will feel better once you are sure that you are stable.
The whole process is triggering.
The meeting with that lady is behind you now. Hoping that you can see your tdoc sooner. She can hlep you be comfortable with a plan.
wishing for you some peace of mind.
You sound likie you are doing ok with all of this.
(((((HUGS))))
You are a very strong woman.

Thank you Bizi :hug::hug::hug:
You're right, all of this is triggering. If the subject comes up again, I will let this counselor know that in the future, discussions regarding my s/s attempt will be reserved for my personal psych team… she knows enough and has the letters from my providers stating I am getting regular psych treatment already.

I think the agitation from Friday was from increased anxiety and missing my meds. I took 1mg klonopin in the morning, and another in the afternoon yesterday and I felt much better. I do well for stretches of time tricking my mind out of having to use much klonopin… now is not one of those times. And as long as my anxiety is treated appropriately, I'll be able to identify any other symptoms that may emerge much more easily, and I'll be on high alert.

None of that means I won't stop trying to manipulate myself though. I have to try to give this lady less power, and these sessions less significance in my mind. I also need to start redirecting myself more if I find myself dwelling on thoughts surrounding these counseling sessions.

I am sorry if this comes across wrong, don't mean it to....
You may be an interesting case for her.
And that may be why she is more interested in talking about it but it is not helpful to you at all. This needs to be her priority and I think it is wise to tell her just that and about how you already have a team in place for those discussions, some how with out pissing her off.

(((((HUGS)))))
bizi

It didn't come across wrong at all. As usual, you make a good point. It wouldn't be the first time I was an "interesting case" for someone. My psychiatrist in the hospital was very interested in the MS/BP comorbidity.

I think I'm probably a compelling case because I don't think she has a very good understanding of bipolar I. It's not as common as bipolar II, so maybe she doesn't have any personal experience in working with patients who have it. I'm sure as a therapist that's fascinating and challenging, and I get the feeling she wants to save me.
I don't have a problem talking to her about my bipolar disorder, but I will be guarded, and as I said, the subject of the s/s is off the table. I will simply explain that it's a very sensitive subject and the therapeutic process there needs to remain consistent. She's a very nice lady, and I think I can be pleasant while setting limits.

The thought has also occurred to me that the counselor was testing me to see if I was willing to take responsibility for my drinking or was willing to blame it fully on the bipolar disorder… by the end of the appointment, she had me believing my real problem was bp and not alcohol, but I know I'm an alcoholic. So, I need to revisit that subject with her. After all, she is a substance abuse counselor.

My friend Bill wrote me my first letter about being sober. It was a very good letter. He mailed a copy to me and sent one directly to the counselor. I'll help my husband write the second, and I'll bring it with me to the next session on Thursday.

I just can't afford to be afraid of this lady- it's way too stressful. She did say that she always does the minimum amount of sessions, which would be 6. I'm going to try to be cautiously optimistic and hope that this will all be over with soon.

All of this makes sense and sounds like a good plan.
Wishing you a peaceful day today.
((((HUGS))))
bizi

I've already taken 1mg of klonopin and once I'm sure my anxiety is under control, I'm going to take the amantadine for the first time this morning. I guess I'm feeling brave. I will let you know how it works out.

I tried my 2nd new pill cutter yesterday. The design is much different than most on the market. It can cut through the huge 400mg seroquel horse pills, but for some unknown reason it cuts small pills in thirds when you try to half them. It's going in the garbage.
My husband showed me a way to make the 1st new one to work well halving small pills evenly with the 1st new one I ordered by holding it in you hand rather than placing it on the table. It can also cut the horse pills perfectly, so that one is a keeper. It will replace the 2 old crappy ones I had.

Tomorrow I'm going to order supplies to make more candles :) I'm having a hard time deciding on the glassware I want though. It's nice slow-paced work and very relaxing. This will be my third attempt, so I expect the candles will come out better. I'm going to watch a couple of videos that will hopefully help with the process.