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Old 12-13-2010, 11:50 AM #31
shalynn shalynn is offline
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I will get back to respond to some of your other replies. I want to tell everyone though how much it means to me that you have all responded to me with so much compassion and caring.

An update on the Mestinon: I caved this morning and took 30 mg. I noticed that my arms were really weak and burning when I was holding the newspaper up to read. I also had a revelation that sort of put this in perspective for me. I'm not sure I can explain, but I'll try.

OK, since I've been on the Mestinon (somewhere around 6 weeks I think), I haven't had that pure exhaustion or the feeling that I can't talk or breath. I have been able to do more than I was able to in the past.

I think the doctor just messed with my mind. He made me doubt myself as to whether I'm really sick. I know that I am. I can go back and read my blog and see and remember how bad I was in the past.

I don't want to take the chance of not being able to breath just to prove a point to this neuro who probably doesn't care anyway.

I hope I've made some sense. It was a long night here.

Thanks again.
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:26 PM #32
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Shalynn, Do you have a medical alert card? If not, please consider putting one together. If your MG, or the "mystery" illness you have gets worse, you need to have basic information with you.

Name, emergency contact info, social security #, insurance numbers, doctor names and numbers, diseases and associated meds, etc. I also put info about drugs that could make MG worse.

FYI.
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:46 PM #33
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Yes Shaylun perfect sense. I feel I was just where you are at a couple times. I started out strong and clear but as the tests came back negative and it became clear that my clear symtpms and mestinon use made no case for them things changed. They did where me down. I thought maybe one more neuro will be the one. That sure hasnt been the case. Or the pulmo who got so scared about my health after I did the pulm stress test resulting in him getting me right in to Mayo.

Much of the time I DO know that "I know my body." You are the expert in your body. I hope you can hold on to that nomatter what.

Annie59

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Originally Posted by shalynn View Post
I will get back to respond to some of your other replies. I want to tell everyone though how much it means to me that you have all responded to me with so much compassion and caring.

An update on the Mestinon: I caved this morning and took 30 mg. I noticed that my arms were really weak and burning when I was holding the newspaper up to read. I also had a revelation that sort of put this in perspective for me. I'm not sure I can explain, but I'll try.

OK, since I've been on the Mestinon (somewhere around 6 weeks I think), I haven't had that pure exhaustion or the feeling that I can't talk or breath. I have been able to do more than I was able to in the past.

I think the doctor just messed with my mind. He made me doubt myself as to whether I'm really sick. I know that I am. I can go back and read my blog and see and remember how bad I was in the past.

I don't want to take the chance of not being able to breath just to prove a point to this neuro who probably doesn't care anyway.

I hope I've made some sense. It was a long night here.

Thanks again.
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shalynn (12-14-2010)
Old 12-14-2010, 03:27 PM #34
shalynn shalynn is offline
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Annie,
Thank you for your kind words and compassion.

Quote:
Maybe someone should teach patients how to respond to such odd questions like "What do you expect out of this visit?"
You are so right! What happens to me is that I am taken so off guard with those odd questions that I get flustered and say nothing! Also, it gets me so upset that I blank out for the rest of the visit, neglecting to say things I meant to say!

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I am beyond angry at neurologists who think every single woman, possibly some men, only have a "mental" problem and not a very real physical disease. It should be illegal to treat patients in this manner. No offense meant to people who actually have those things wrong with them - they are real problems. It's simply not scientific to declare someone has any of them without PROOF and certainly not after a twenty minute appointment without doing any testing to conclude that.
I agree with you. In fact, unless they are a neuropsychologist they have no business diagnosing a patient with any psychological illness. In my case, I think the neuro believes that something is wrong, but he hinted that there might be a psych component to it. Ya think so??? Try being sick for six years and not knowing why. That would cause anyone to be a little mentally ill. I am on an AD and I have had trouble with anxiety in the past, but I am one of the most mentally stable person I know because I have realized when I needed help and sought out the treatment. It's as if these doctors think that a patient can't have both a physical and a mental illness at the same time. Or, to confuse them even more, a patient can't possibly have more than one illness at a time!!

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What can you do? First, take time to build your ego, confidence and thoughts back up, since this doctor tore you down, whether he meant to or not. Pull all of your records together. And read them. Put all of your symptoms down on paper in a succinct and logical way. Take photos or videos of yourself for documentation, like photos of ptosis and put together a list of questions (i.e., If this is fatigable ptosis then how could it be a mitochondrial cytopathy?)
I'm working on the ego building. I need to really start keeping a symptom diary. I do have the one pic I posted here of my eyes before and after Mestinon, it was shortly after I started posting here regularly. I made a video today of my wacky eye movements.

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Get an objective and "blind" opinion from both a pulmonologist and neuro-ophthalmologist. Bring no records. Bite your tongue. Simply say "I noticed that my eyelid was drooping" to the N-O or "I'm a bit short of breath and wanted to make sure all was okay" to the pulmy.
This is a very good idea and it makes a lot of sense! I know I def need to see a neuroop...the closest one is about two or three hours away. But I'm sure it would be worth it. A pulmonologist would be helpful if they would actually do the correct tests. I had a PFT which ordered by my PCP that showed asthma. But, I really need more extensive tests from what I've read. Especially ones done after exercising.

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Some mitochondrial diseases can be helped, as you obviously know. You know, I never "argue" or "discuss" with doctors much anymore. I simply nod my head. They honestly can't "handle" patients who can intelligently discuss health issues. The only places that can do a good enough muscle biopsy to figure out if you do have a MC is Mayo or Johns Hopkins. You only want to be sliced apart once, believe me.
I did have a muscle biopsy done in Indianapolis last year. It was a frozen biopsy though. It showed some abnormalities, but nothing specific to any disease. One thing it showed was type 2 atrophy. I know this can be caused by disuse (which I don't think I fit that category), but it can also be caused by other diseases. Yesterday I read somewhere that type 2 atrophy can be caused by MG. Interesting. Oh, I don't think I had a very extensive exam of my muscle tissue either. No electron microscopy, just the basics if I'm remembering correctly.


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This is the chapter where I use Wonderland as a metaphor because it fit oh so nicely for neuros. I should note that I had written it before I knew Alice (our Alice) but since then it's been nice to think of her in that way (as a good example for doctors).
Wonderland. That makes sense. Yes our Alice is a very good doctor.

Quote:
The "algorithm" for diagnosing MG is evolving. The old one was all about "Gold Standard" this and "MG is the most well-understood autoimmune disease" that. Frankly, I think celiac disease is the most understood and they are still discovering things about it. You know doctors, they need to know EVERYTHING. Not possible. So when he said he needs MG to show up in "tests" he may have meant not only the antibody tests but an EMG or RNS or SFEMG or Tensilon test, etc. I honestly don't have a clue what he meant, I'm only guessing.
I agree. But, what I don't get is how he could one minute say I could have MG with the tests being negative, but that he wouldn't treat me unless the tests were positive. This must mean that he doesn't really believe that you can have negative tests and have MG, or that he thinks, in my case, there is something else going on and he doesn't want to deal with it. I think there is probably a lot about MG that they don't know.

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I'm with Susan on the playing around with Mestinon. It can be dangerous to quit cold turkey, especially without a doctor knowing and approving that. I've done it a few times but, again, only with my prescribing doctor's knowledge. Then if you tank, they are ready to recommend a course of action.
I did ask the "bad neuro" and he said I could quit cold turkey. So, that makes me wonder if he thinks that it didn't matter since I may have only been imagining that it was helping me. I'm confusing myself. I did start back on it again as I was noticing more weakness. Last night after dinner, I had to go straight to bed I was so weak just from eating.I ended up sleeping for two hours!

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I really think this "diagnosing" of patients with MG - or other diseases - has gotten to the point of the ridiculous. They throw drugs at patients without a thorough diagnosis and then sit in wonder when the patients have a SFEMG on the drug and it's negative. I don't believe this will change until there are diagnostic centers meant only for diagnosing patients. And, no, I don't mean places like Mayo. But my wishing won't help you, will it?
I think what we need is more neuros who will think outside the box. If you look at the MGF website it actually states somewhere that the clinical exam should probably take precedence over negative lab tests.

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I don't know what more to say other than pull your damn bootstraps up, again, dust off your tenacity and make someone help you. There are nice, good doctors out there, willing to do what it takes. In the meantime, do what everyone else is saying: BELIEVE in yourself and your instincts about your health. So far, they haven't proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, not even close, that there isn't something wrong.
I am a very strong person. I'm a fighter and I know that there is something wrong. I have a PCP and a neuro in Indy who believe that too. I need to probably have regular appointments set up with them even if it's just for the mental health boost. I do see my PCP in Feb, but am going to try and get in before the end of the year.

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I can just hear a neuro saying, "Well, I have proven that I haven't proven anything and, therefore, I've proven I've done my job."
Very Funny! And sad, really.

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Hang in there and be good to yourself.
Thanks!!!!

I appreciate the time that you took to write all of this. You are helping me so much!
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Old 12-14-2010, 03:56 PM #35
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Shari,

I'm sooo glad you caved. That doesn't show weakness at all, a person can't struggle with an unknown illness for several years and be called weak. It shows a very strong, empowered person who only wants answers, so she can continue to fight the good fight!!

I can't begin to tell you how worried about you I was the last few days!!
Hope your starting to feel a little stronger,

Rachel
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You never know how STRONG you are, until being STRONG is the only choice you have!
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Old 12-14-2010, 07:20 PM #36
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[QUOTE=alice md;725263]
Quote:
being a physician and having to deal for quite a few years with a very "out of the box" illness, forced me to question almost everything in my life.
I'm sure that had to be difficult for you. I think those who aren't in the medical profession tend to think that doctor's automatically have it easier when they are sick, but I can see where that wouldn't necessarily be the case.

Quote:
you have to be aware of the fact that those "boxes" (we call diagnoses) are not strict, and there will always be outliers.
Why are there so many doctors who refuse to do this? Is it an ego thing? Is it something they weren't taught in medical school?


Quote:
being a less knowledgable resident and not "knowing" that the the ratio, Xray etc. don't fit gave me an advantage over those highly experienced physicians who were stuck in their conceptions.
I bet that was an experience you will never forget either. You have to wonder what would have happened to that patient had the diagnosis not been made when it was made? That very thing is what scares me so much of not having a 100% diagnosis. How bad do I have to get before I get a diagnosis? My PCP said he is sure that is what I have. But, I get the impression that his diagnosis doesn't really count.



Quote:
I took a different approach. I try to find those that can. those that expect me to nod my head and agree with what they say, as if it were the words of god, or think it is unreasonable from me to ask them to waste their precious time on understanding my illness, are of no use to me, and as soon as I realize that this is their approach, I nicely say good-bye. thank them for their "efforts" and move on.
This is exactly what I have done. I have probably seen close to a dozen neuros. I think the danger in this is being labeled a doctor shopper. I am not looking for a neuro to give me a diagnosis that "I want" I am looking for a neuro to work and give me a diagnosis that I have.

Thanks so much for your insight and for taking the time to respond to my post.
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Old 12-14-2010, 07:24 PM #37
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Originally Posted by busybusy View Post
MG symptoms are tough things to explain to someone. I was blessed to have a neuro who really cared. Growing up, my father taught us to respect others' opinions, and you did not rebuke them. Even though I disagreed with many, I have a hard time voicing my opinion to them. I always feel guilty once it comes out of my mouth, so I don't say anything. I have had doctors that were very, very ugly. I just moved on. When my neuro ran tests to see why I was falling, he finally told me he wanted to try me on Mestinon. He had mentioned the SFEMG, and I would laugh and say that really hurts. But the last visit when he was talking to me, I asked him if I was someone he loved very much and was having some issues, what would he do. He recommended the SFEMG. So I agreed even though I did not want to experience the pain of the test; and yes, it hurt. I laughed when I told him that if I go through that again, he is going with me. When he asked me my opinion, I always say, what would you do or what do you think. I respect this person and I guess I have faith in him that he is going to look after me. That makes a world of difference. I also go in smiling even though I don't feel like it, and usually leave laughing. That's just me. I laugh when I am stressed. I can say he has done everything he knows to help me without shunning me off and without me having to make suggestions. This is the first time in years that I have finally gotten relief and knowing the enemy that I am fighting. My road has been long and hard. There is someone out there, it just takes time, a lot of tears, and a lot of frustration, but I am a believer that all will find the right one. I would like to say Merry Christmas to all who support this forum and the encouragement each one has for one another. busybusy
Thanks so much for your reply. Your neuro sounds like a wonderful doctor. You know, I asked my PCP something similar, I asked him if his wife was having all of my symptoms would he want her on Mestinon? He said absolutely. He is a very caring doctor.

My neuro up in Indy is a good doctor too. I'm just going to stick with her. I guess I was getting too greedy to think I could find a neuro here in my home town that would help me.

So was your SFEMG positive?

Merry Christmas to you too! Thanks again.
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Old 12-14-2010, 07:26 PM #38
shalynn shalynn is offline
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Originally Posted by craftyRCC View Post
Shari,

I'm sooo glad you caved. That doesn't show weakness at all, a person can't struggle with an unknown illness for several years and be called weak. It shows a very strong, empowered person who only wants answers, so she can continue to fight the good fight!!

I can't begin to tell you how worried about you I was the last few days!!
Hope your starting to feel a little stronger,

Rachel
Rachel, That's so sweet of you to be worried about me. It means a lot. As I said before, I am not giving up. I'm working on a plan of action as we speak. lol

TTYL!
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:59 PM #39
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Thank you Shalynn for this message. Spending so so much time alone it is as to be expected too much and the lid blows. If it didnt I'd end up with a heart attack.

This is one of the hardest things I have ever gone thru. When I was young and going thru a divorce it was horrible esp for my kids but I think when younger I was less aware.

I came from a somewhat tough place as a kid so I didnt expect much. I guess maybe I have come a far distance in that I have little understanding of a person who goes into a field to care for people that are ill and treat them poorly if not out right disgracefully!

Annie59

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Originally Posted by shalynn View Post
I have my Mestinon with me and I've told my husband what I'm doing. He is not happy about it though.

"PS sorry my first message turned into a rant".

Annie~Do not be sorry about your post!! Where else can we talk about what we are going through? This is a place where other people truly get it! From our symptoms, difficulties with diagnosis (some of us), and just living with being chronically ill.
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:09 AM #40
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Originally Posted by shalynn View Post

This is exactly what I have done. I have probably seen close to a dozen neuros. I think the danger in this is being labeled a doctor shopper. I am not looking for a neuro to give me a diagnosis that "I want" I am looking for a neuro to work and give me a diagnosis that I have.
I think you have done (and are doing) the right thing. as long as you do not fit any known "box" there will be those that will conveniently label you as something any how and you really have no control over that, so don't worry about it. just do what you think is right. I always say that I like everyone, I am bound to make some mistakes, but I want to make my own mistakes not someone else's.

by the way, when you come to think about it, what's so bad about being a doctor shopper? if you want to buy a car, you will probably seek the best car-dealer, learn as much as you can about the different cars you can afford, consult friends and family what is the best, safest, most reliable car.

why shouldn't you do do the same, when it comes to your own health.

would anyone judge you for not buying the first car from the first car-dealer (who you could clearly sense was trying to sell you a cheap car at a ridiculously high price)? no, they would say how smart you are for not falling into his trap. so why should you be ready to "buy" the diagnosis a non-caring arrogant physician is trying to "sell" you or the treatment he has pulled out of his sleeve without thinking about the potential risks?

I can tell you that are some excellent and even outstanding physicians out there, and some I would not even buy a used car from. and many in-between. so why shouldn't you try to get the best?

and I think you should be looking for a neuro (or other physicians as needed) that will work with you, to find the best way to manage your illness. what matters is not the diagnosis, but the actual management. finding the right diagnosis is only one step in that process, and clearly not enough.
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