[SloRian]

I didn't want to dump on the Christmas thread, so I'll dump here ... sorry, I just need to vent

It's a hard time of year, because our family is in chaos now - after 20+ years of a great marriage, we moved to Arizona (because of a job) and right next to some dysfunctional family members of my husband's, and that, on top of our many health issues (including the RSD monster) has triggered some really bad anger in him. I know that nothing is 100% anyone's fault, but when your kids, your nephews, your kids' friends, and even his parents say he has an anger issue, then it's pretty definite that it's mostly his problem. He's a great guy underneath, but he just needs to acknowledge the problem so he can deal with it. The good news is that he's agreed to go back to counseling and likes this new counselor. He's been 2 times now.

The other day, my daughter (17) told me that sometimes she just wishes that we would get a divorce, because we so obviously don't like being together. We can't even watch tv together, because he gets so angry if we say something and it causes him to miss a word, but HE can talk whenever he wants to. I even bought the DVR service so he can rewind it, but he still gets mad. The kids and I will be watching a show and having fun and talking, and then he joins, and then starts snapping at us, and then one by one, we'll leave the room and turn on the show in the other room and start having fun again, and then eventually he'll come in and ask why we left, and we say it's because we like to talk a little during the show and he gets mad at us if we talk, and he says that's because we always talk at the wrong time. It's just ridiculous.

He was just raised in a family where you have to be perfect, so I think he can't acknowledge that he has an anger issue. He says that he just gets "frustrated". I'm sorry, but when so many people around you say it's anger, then it's probably anger, and even if it isn't, then wouldn't you want to know that you're coming off as angry and fix it?

I told my daughter (after the divorce comment) that we took a vow for better or for worse, and this is a "worse" time that we're working through. I guess I didn't realize how much it was affecting them, though. I'm so constantly protecting them from his unreasonable anger, I'm just exhausted. He jumps all over them with unfair accusations, then they come to me in tears, and I try to listen to them and help. It's been this way for about 5 years now, though, because between my major health issues, my son's serious physical handicap, and my daughter's RSD, I just didn't have the energy to do counseling, plus I thought that if I was patient and understanding, it would get better. It didn't, though, and I finally realized I was enabling him by being so nice, so I decided to get counseling even if he didn't. He finally agreed, but then got really mad when I told the counselor some of the really bad issues. I finally took a separate car to counseling because I couldn't stand his anger after the session. Now we're seeing a different counselor separately, and he actually likes this one, so I'm praying he'll keep going. I'll go, no matter what, and my daughter is going now, too, also to get help with the RSD issues.

I ended up telling my husband about my daughter's divorce comment, because I thought it would motivate him to keep going to counseling. I mean, my reaction was "OMG! I'm so sorry that our issues have hurt you so much!! I didn't realize that our not wanting to be together was so hurtful - I thought our being apart was better than the anger when we're together. Thank you for telling me, and I'll work on that with the counselor, too". Stupidly, I thought that my husband would have the same reaction (I'm one of those people that are really smart in math and physics and computers, but rather dumb with people sometimes - I tend to think they'll react the same way I do). Anyway, I was picking up my son from school, and he told me that my husband talked to my daughter about that comment and was really snarky about it. That just tore my heart out - I had NO idea he would take it out on her.

I called her and apologized, but we couldn't talk long because she was just heading into her counseling appt. I guess I better think more before sharing her comments. I really, REALLY thought that it would be a motivator - I NEVER thought that it would be turned against her.

It just really stinks here now I think if I had the health, I would get a separation, just to illustrate how serious things are, and to get a break from the anger. I think he is mostly angry around us because we're "safe" to be angry with - he isn't "allowed" to be angry around his family. In fact, when we see a snarky mood coming on, sometimes we'll invite people over to put him in his "I'm a nice happy guy" persona.

I guess I should have tried to get help years ago. I just hope it's not too late. A big part of the issue is my poor health - he's just never really dealt with it. He just keeps thinking "If only she would get better", and when I urge him to go out, he says he wants me to go, too, so he'd rather not go out without me. My bad health really stinks, and I think he's just bottled up the hurt and anger over it for years, and then when we moved here and started going thru the shredder (multiple car accidents, multiple surgeries, ongoing issues with my son's major handicap and my bad health, then my daughter's RSD, plus in his family, his dad's cancer, our brohter-in-law's accident with brain damage, sister's major depression with multiple shock treatments, mom's heart attack, sister-in-law across the street with major personality disorder that routinely tries to use and hurt us, etc. etc.) he just couldn't hold it in anymore and is letting it out in the safest place that he knows, which unfortunately is home.

On the very small plus side, this week he actually complimented me once, and listened to me about an issue once without being defensive and angry, and apologized. If he keeps going to counseling, I think we have a chance, but I hate that it has hurt my kids so much


SO - any tips from anyone about how to deal with major awful health stuff in marriages?

[chaos]

I'm in a similar situation. My DH has been angry for years. We all tell him. A couple months ago he got MRSA and was on heavy antibiotics. Well, he's actually been a little better since then and says he can look back know and see he was angry. Mine is also depressed and never wants to deal with it. He gets SAD too so I keep reminding him to take vit D.

I think about what my life would be like if I didn't have him. My daughter has said the same thing and I pretty much said the same thing you did back to her.

He said a couple things to me last night that made me think maybe he is doing better. One was that he felt guilt about my trauma, that he felt he should have helped do something about it. Second was that he was thinking about getting a full time job. He's tried to work at home since I married him, our DD has mild autism so it's really been good, but she's getting older, I am getting worse and if I have to go on SSDI he MUST work.

Most people who are xxx (angry, depressed, etc) don't see it. I just don't know how to force them to.

[Allanira]

Get him a punching bag and hang it in the garage or car port which ever you have. When he starts getting angry and pissy tell him to take it to the bag. That you and your children are not hos verbal or physical punching bags. Also tell him if he does lay a finger on you or them you will beat the tar out of him with a broom. I've already told my husband this and he believed me. I may have a ton of pain all the time but you don't touch my babies physically or verbally. I would make a mad momma grizzly look like a puppy. My husband is angry that he can't help me when I hurt so bad and the drs weren't listening to me. He is now starting to realize that this is our life for the foreseeable future. He tries his hardest to do everything plus work a full time military job. Don't give up hope.

[moosey2me]

Originally Posted by SloRian

I didn't want to dump on the Christmas thread, so I'll dump here ... sorry, I just need to vent

It's a hard time of year, because our family is in chaos now - after 20+ years of a great marriage, we moved to Arizona (because of a job) and right next to some dysfunctional family members of my husband's, and that, on top of our many health issues (including the RSD monster) has triggered some really bad anger in him. I know that nothing is 100% anyone's fault, but when your kids, your nephews, your kids' friends, and even his parents say he has an anger issue, then it's pretty definite that it's mostly his problem. He's a great guy underneath, but he just needs to acknowledge the problem so he can deal with it. The good news is that he's agreed to go back to counseling and likes this new counselor. He's been 2 times now.

The other day, my daughter (17) told me that sometimes she just wishes that we would get a divorce, because we so obviously don't like being together. We can't even watch tv together, because he gets so angry if we say something and it causes him to miss a word, but HE can talk whenever he wants to. I even bought the DVR service so he can rewind it, but he still gets mad. The kids and I will be watching a show and having fun and talking, and then he joins, and then starts snapping at us, and then one by one, we'll leave the room and turn on the show in the other room and start having fun again, and then eventually he'll come in and ask why we left, and we say it's because we like to talk a little during the show and he gets mad at us if we talk, and he says that's because we always talk at the wrong time. It's just ridiculous.

He was just raised in a family where you have to be perfect, so I think he can't acknowledge that he has an anger issue. He says that he just gets "frustrated". I'm sorry, but when so many people around you say it's anger, then it's probably anger, and even if it isn't, then wouldn't you want to know that you're coming off as angry and fix it?

I told my daughter (after the divorce comment) that we took a vow for better or for worse, and this is a "worse" time that we're working through. I guess I didn't realize how much it was affecting them, though. I'm so constantly protecting them from his unreasonable anger, I'm just exhausted. He jumps all over them with unfair accusations, then they come to me in tears, and I try to listen to them and help. It's been this way for about 5 years now, though, because between my major health issues, my son's serious physical handicap, and my daughter's RSD, I just didn't have the energy to do counseling, plus I thought that if I was patient and understanding, it would get better. It didn't, though, and I finally realized I was enabling him by being so nice, so I decided to get counseling even if he didn't. He finally agreed, but then got really mad when I told the counselor some of the really bad issues. I finally took a separate car to counseling because I couldn't stand his anger after the session. Now we're seeing a different counselor separately, and he actually likes this one, so I'm praying he'll keep going. I'll go, no matter what, and my daughter is going now, too, also to get help with the RSD issues.

I ended up telling my husband about my daughter's divorce comment, because I thought it would motivate him to keep going to counseling. I mean, my reaction was "OMG! I'm so sorry that our issues have hurt you so much!! I didn't realize that our not wanting to be together was so hurtful - I thought our being apart was better than the anger when we're together. Thank you for telling me, and I'll work on that with the counselor, too". Stupidly, I thought that my husband would have the same reaction (I'm one of those people that are really smart in math and physics and computers, but rather dumb with people sometimes - I tend to think they'll react the same way I do). Anyway, I was picking up my son from school, and he told me that my husband talked to my daughter about that comment and was really snarky about it. That just tore my heart out - I had NO idea he would take it out on her.

I called her and apologized, but we couldn't talk long because she was just heading into her counseling appt. I guess I better think more before sharing her comments. I really, REALLY thought that it would be a motivator - I NEVER thought that it would be turned against her.

It just really stinks here now I think if I had the health, I would get a separation, just to illustrate how serious things are, and to get a break from the anger. I think he is mostly angry around us because we're "safe" to be angry with - he isn't "allowed" to be angry around his family. In fact, when we see a snarky mood coming on, sometimes we'll invite people over to put him in his "I'm a nice happy guy" persona.

I guess I should have tried to get help years ago. I just hope it's not too late. A big part of the issue is my poor health - he's just never really dealt with it. He just keeps thinking "If only she would get better", and when I urge him to go out, he says he wants me to go, too, so he'd rather not go out without me. My bad health really stinks, and I think he's just bottled up the hurt and anger over it for years, and then when we moved here and started going thru the shredder (multiple car accidents, multiple surgeries, ongoing issues with my son's major handicap and my bad health, then my daughter's RSD, plus in his family, his dad's cancer, our brohter-in-law's accident with brain damage, sister's major depression with multiple shock treatments, mom's heart attack, sister-in-law across the street with major personality disorder that routinely tries to use and hurt us, etc. etc.) he just couldn't hold it in anymore and is letting it out in the safest place that he knows, which unfortunately is home.

On the very small plus side, this week he actually complimented me once, and listened to me about an issue once without being defensive and angry, and apologized. If he keeps going to counseling, I think we have a chance, but I hate that it has hurt my kids so much


SO - any tips from anyone about how to deal with major awful health stuff in marriages?

I have to tell you I started reading this earlier,and had to quit.I thought about it and came back..I was thinking about my past,and it really made my heart ache for you and your children..Please think whats best for you and your children..Not him,because you will scar them with all this anger..They will carry this with them..Been there..It hurts..Either he changes or I would take the children and leave..Its not worth it..You never realize how this changes lifes..You might need to go to a session together again so he knows how this is effecting everyone..Its not all about him..Sorry but I love children,and refuse to see any of them hurt..Remember this is JUST HOW I FEEL ...

[SloRian]

Thank you everyone - sorry for such a bummer post. I think there is hope because he has started going to counseling and is committed to it now. I wanted to put up a quick post that we just had the best talk we've had in years about some very difficult subjects.

Thanks for being there, people. It's a long road, and one I should have started years ago, but you just keep thinking "it's going to get better", especially when you've had 20 years of a great marriage.

[AZ-Di]

Sorry to be late as usual, but you have my support! My situation is not identical of course, but similar. Been married 28 yrs. & kids are out on their own finally for better or worse. Hubby has many anger issues with me & my new health/work problems due to RSD/CRPS. Our oldest son also brings out the worst out the worst in him. I'm glad you can get your's to counseling, I don't think mine would consider it.
I'm in in the Valley area too if you'd like to P.M. me we could talk.

[Brambledog]

I'm so sorry SloRian, what a horrible situation for you and your children. Other have said some very wise things, but I wanted to give you my support and say that you are a strong woman, and you would cope with a big change no matter what. It might be hard and emotional, but if you needed to go it alone I believe you would do ok.

Think now much of your strength and emotional energy is being spent at the moment in containing his anger and emotional garbage... It sounds as though you are going along behind every move he makes, trying to minimize the damage and hurt he is causing. It must be exhausting and distressing to be doing that every day, and to not be able to share your worries and fears with the one person you should be able to rely on and be in a partnership with - your husband.

I would never say 'leave him', because I don't really know you or your life, but what you're describing does not sound good, and from your post I think you are well aware of that. I've got friends who had bad relationships themselves, or whose parents split up, and they all spoke of the relief when it was over and how they hadn't realised how badly it was affecting them until afterwards. Sometimes things just don't work out, and it's not your fault if that happens with your family, because it's clear where the problem mainly lies.

Being brutally honest here, he sounds like a bully. When you said he is a decent bloke underneath it really broke my heart, because that's the way it always is with some people who have learnt how to bully and manipulate those around them. They can be lovely when they choose, but also horrible for no reason or for tiny infringements of whatever their 'rules' are. That's emotional abuse, and you and your children are being bullied in your own home. I know you said he hasn't been physically violent, but unfortunately that day might come if he has clear anger issues that are well known to his family. And if it did, he would initially be full of guilt and excuse himself, and you would want to believe him.... Sadly it's a pattern that is very well known.

The fact that your daughter said she wished you would divorce is very sad and chilling. Normally children will endure much to keep their family together, and she is clearly very unhappy to be saying that to you. Given that both you and she are suffering from CRPS, and your son is also suffering, the stress of your home situation must be making things worse for all of you.

Only you can decide how to deal with this, but although I believe counselling can be very powerful, I do doubt it's power to change behaviours your husband has maybe been using his whole life. I really really admire how you've stuck in there and refused to give up on the life you've built, but five years is a very long time to live with things this bad, especially in the life of a child. As one of the other posters said, children learn how to behave as adults from seeing the relationship of their parents, and what your daughter and son see at home will shape their own adult relationships. He is teaching them that it's excusable for a man to behave like this and make people unhappy, and that it's normal for a woman to have to excuse it despite her own unhappiness. That's a dangerous mix to try and deal with when attempting to find your own partner. Will your daughter recognise bullying or abusive behaviour in a boyfriend as that, or will she think it's normal and blame herself for a man's attitude towards her?

We all have doubts and periods of unhappiness, and it's difficult to know where to draw that line that says enough, no more. Your family as a whole has suffered so much, and of course that has affected everyone. It's impossible for anyone outside your life to know whether this is a bad patch, or a worsening situation.

From what you describe, I am worried for you, although I do hope that this counselling can finally change things. Even a small improvement is good, as long as your life together becomes something positive. Only you can decide whether that is something you want for you as a family. Maybe you could consider a trial separation, maybe he does need a proper wake-up call, maybe as long as you are all there he feels it can't be that bad. Or maybe it will get better, maybe the counselling will change his behaviour, maybe you can all start being in the same room together without the tension and fear...

I wish you all the luck in the world. You have been very strong and supportive of other people on the site, and always positive and cheerful. It must have taken a lot for you to make this post, and I think it's an amazing step to take.

Take care of yourself and remember that we are here for you, and want you to be happy.

Bram

[SloRian]

Thank you SO SO much everyone for your support. It's so comforting to know there's a place to let go and share really, really hard things.

I'll definitely consider many options, but I think there may have finally been a turning point because in the talk, he not only finally fully agreed about some behaviors, but he also took complete ownership of them, and we came up with and agreed upon what to do if they come up again. This is definitely a very new and positive change, and I think it came about because of my being tougher. It's just so difficult to know when to put your foot down and stop hoping that it will just stop, after you've had 20 very good years of marriage, plus so often being hardly able to even survive the day because of all the crap that hit us from all sides all at once. Since we moved here almost 7 years ago now, it's been one long non-stop nightmare of so many things that I sometimes hesitate to describe them because I don't think people will believe me! I mean, just the car accidents alone (100% not our fault, any of them! in one of them, we were hit by a 18-wheeler truck loaded with sulfuric acid, and it wiped out our car, trailer, and 2 quads!) have been nuts.

Thank you all SO much for listening, and for your support. It was an awful day yesterday, but the changes held today, and for the first time in several years, I have hope because of the completely changed attitude he had in our talk. The counselor we are going to apparently does really well with men, so God willing, we've finally hit a turning point. If not, I really do need to consider more drastic measures, though, I know.

[Brambledog]

I'm really pleased for you SloRian well done. It takes a lot to decide you've reached that point and to take action to tackle it. Sounds like you've turned a corner...

Here's hoping for a really positive and hopeful Christmas for you all

Bram.

[AZ-Di]

So glad for a break thru for you! Sure do hope it's for good even if there may be set backs. Sounds like you found a really great counselor.
Yes, i can understand when crazy stuff happens to normal & good people.
I hope you realize you're important and you matter a lot to us. I want the best for you.