Originally Posted by Brambledog

Oh Renee...we all carry so much guilt, don't we? We feel so responsible for everything, even the things out of our control

The despair at times like that - middle of the night and everyone else in the world seems to be asleep without the dreadful pain and fear - is overwhelming. I hooe you are feeling a little better now and more hopeful

No one can blame another for their thoughts, and I truly believe that at the ultimate lowest point in life, when all hope has gone, someone making that ultimate decision will not have done so lightly. And their family need to know that.

Earlier this year, after I had that heart episode and felt so appalling for a couple of days, there was a point where I truly thought I was close to it taking me. I did a voice recording for my family, and it was the most heart-wrenching thing I've ever done, really thinking about what I could say, how to express things you can't even bear to think about. It was truly awful, BUT a really good experience too in a funny way, because even in the depths of fear and despair, it made me think about all the important, amazing things I still wanted to be see, all the people I wanted to be around, and how much I didn't want it to happen.

If I ever get to the point of considering suicide, my life would be bleak and feel hopeless, but I would do a recording again, and I think I would know from that experience whether the scales were still up or down for me. For a rational person, I think that is a true test. No one doubts that we love our families, but if life itself becomes so dreadful for us that we feel we have no other choice than to say goodbye, then that is our decision alone to make. And at least the people who matter would know our thoughts, and not forever wonder.

A famous somebody once wrote that we are born alone, and we die alone. I think that's true in a way. When my pain gets really REALLY bad, I cannot even hear another voice, or respond, or be aware of anything except what my body is screaming at me. It's a terrible isolation. I can sort of see how in that final moment, you might not be able to think of anything except ending the pain.

If I heard of any long-term pain patient ending their life, I would just be terribly sad for them that they had suffered so much that they felt they had no other choice. I would be sad for their family and friends too, but I would hope that they could in time understand why it had happened.

I take responsibility for my actions, whatever they are. It's all you can do.

Have a decent day everyone, and thank you all for this discussion, and letting people speak freely. You're all fab and I feel lucky to kind of know you

Bram.